Author Topic: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military  (Read 3498 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 302,421
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,120
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2019, 09:50:27 »
Nearly everyone with a daughter says the same thing. So, if everyone with a daughter feels the same way, then why aren’t we doing something about it?


The CDS himself admitted that he can't fix our boot system. If he can't fix putting boots on soldiers feet how can we it?
There are no wolves on Fenris

Online Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 229,972
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,371
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2019, 10:34:38 »
The CDS himself admitted that he can't fix our boot system. If he can't fix putting boots on soldiers feet how can we it?

What is needed is an overall look and change to our legal industry, aka "justice" system.

Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline stoker dave

  • New Member
  • **
  • 2,980
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 43
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2019, 10:41:05 »
Release CAF members when they physically or mentally hurt another member.

And what about the supervisor (Officer / NCM) responsible for that "CAF member" who knows (or should know) that someone for whom they are responsible is physically or mentally hurting another member? 

If, for example, a Sgt / PO knew their job and career was on the line if one of their subordinates was found to be acting inappropriately, that might go some ways to addressing the problem. 

Online Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 229,972
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,371
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2019, 10:50:44 »
And what about the supervisor (Officer / NCM) responsible for that "CAF member" who knows (or should know) that someone for whom they are responsible is physically or mentally hurting another member? 

If, for example, a Sgt / PO knew their job and career was on the line if one of their subordinates was found to be acting inappropriately, that might go some ways to addressing the problem.

So what if the subordinate hurts/harms/acts inappropriately when on leave or off duty?

Is the immediate supervisor then held responsible? How far up the CoC do you go?

Many years ago we had a soldier who committed armed robbery twice at the same location. Was his section commander held responsible? No.

IF the immediate supervisor knew or ought to have known then yes, some action needs to be taken.
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 17,550
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,354
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 16:36:01 »
The CDS himself admitted that he can't fix our boot system. If he can't fix putting boots on soldiers feet how can we it?

I’m sorry, but fixing the boot problem is very simple.  The fact our CDS says he can’t do it really has me questioning his abilities as a leader.

However, we can’t collectively fix the boot issue, but we can collectively fix this issue.  My  :2c:

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 254,665
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,103
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2019, 17:20:04 »
Many years ago we had a soldier who committed armed robbery twice at the same location.

One of the additional charges should be 'displays a lack of imagination' :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline stoker dave

  • New Member
  • **
  • 2,980
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 43
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2019, 14:22:47 »
There are indeed two sides to every coin:

https://www.trurodaily.com/news/regional/fondling-of-frigate-mates-aboard-hmcs-charlottetown-earns-navy-officer-a-reprimand-346626/

"A female navy officer who several times grabbed the genitals of male colleagues aboard HMCS Charlottetown was handed a severe reprimand and a $3,000 fine at a Halifax court martial Thursday."

Edit: In no way to do I condone any type of unwanted touching.  This behaviour - whether male or female - is entirely unacceptable.  I sincerely hope that somewhere in DND a means to reduce this problem is identified and successfully implemented. 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 15:39:24 by stoker dave »

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 112,035
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,948
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2019, 17:04:08 »
In the early 70's we saw a spike in male on male assaults. I think some guys used this to get thrown out of the Army. In those days we had some dratee's and wanted our badly. Today the Army will toss you pretty quick. But then it was very hard. The Army would prosecute these assault cases and then incarcerate them. Tim in jail doesnt count towards service commitment. If they did a year that time would be tacked on to your service extending your enlistment.

Offline BeyondTheNow

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 71,000
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,193
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2019, 15:40:34 »
That was an incredibly impactful article. I'm glad it was written and the only way for any  type of unacceptable behaviour to stop is for more people to speak openly about their experiences without fear of reprisal. It takes an incredible amount of courage to speak up.

I personally wouldn't discourage anyone from joining CAF because they're concerned about things they've read and/or heard regarding sexual assault. There are a ton of pros and cons to the CAF environment in general and those vary greatly depending upon a large number of factors yet again. Unfortunately, there are morally-bankrupt people in all facets of life and CAF is no different. But for those reading from the outside, rest assured, there are a ton of good people here and they far out-number the bad.

As a sexual assault survivor (outside CAF), I was notably concerned about reports I'd read here and there regarding instances of sexual assault in the CAF before I joined. Going by the stats I'm aware of, we don't have the same level of instances as some other militaries, thankfully. (Granted, we have a much smaller military. It's important to weigh percentages against each other, rather than numbers in order to get a true picture of the level of severity.) Of course, those in the know can only go off of incidents that actually get reported.

While individual experiences will vary, I've seen and heard enough to know that there are certain areas and factors that seem to contribute more to episodes of varying levels of unwanted sexual behaviour towards another member, regardless of gender/sex, how they identify, rank, etc. than others. But as far as I'm concerned, it comes down to one issue and one only. CAF preaches integrity out the wazoo, but no one with an ounce of integrity treats another individual in that manner. It's always about power, domination, intimidation, selfishness, dehumanization, ego and/or any combination thereof. Unsurprisingly, this type of work attracts certain types of individuals and can also help cultivate a certain mindset. I personally don't know that CAF can substantially stomp out this behaviour altogether simply because of the nature of how CAF (and other organizations with similar styles of employment hierarchy) operates. So, as has been stated earlier, it's important that those who are in the position to do so not only support a member coming forward, but also be aware of how their own behaviour can be perceived and assist in disallowing their colleagues to act in such ways when they see it.




“I failed my way to success.” ~Thomas Edison

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 432,190
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,351
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2019, 16:21:42 »
… there are a ton of good people here and they far out-number the bad ...
When rules are made based on the behaviour of the worst of the worst, it's easy to forget that - good reminder.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 432,190
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,351
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2019, 07:43:50 »
In the early 70's we saw a spike in male on male assaults.
Sadly, it doesn't appear to be down to zero yet :(
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 112,035
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,948
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2019, 10:20:07 »
One of our serial abusers was a medic. Troops just wouldnt go to him if they had an issue. The other abusers seemed to be in Alpha company and the company was mocked if they marched by. Eventually the Army either kicked these folks out or were transferred.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 432,190
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,351
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2019, 11:43:27 »
One of our serial abusers was a medic.  Troops just wouldnt go to him if they had an issue ...
Not only a colleague, but one mandated to help people - niiiiiiiiiiiiice … :(
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 112,035
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,948
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2019, 11:55:36 »
We had some super medics as well that were liked and respected. The abuser in question was a Spec 5. The Army in its wisdom discontinued those specialist super grades. Spec 5's then became Sgt's. On the flip side of this coin we had a rash of soldiers sleeping with their fellow soldiers wives. It was very bad for morale and unit cohesion. The highest ranking  was an NCO who was charged and lost a stripe same rank as his former buddy who then took him to the woodshed.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 302,421
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,120
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2019, 18:19:54 »
I’m sorry, but fixing the boot problem is very simple.  The fact our CDS says he can’t do it really has me questioning his abilities as a leader.

However, we can’t collectively fix the boot issue, but we can collectively fix this issue.  My  :2c:

I honestly don't think we can using conventional means.

It's not just new-to-the-military troops doing this stuff. It's MWOs and LtCols too. Members with 20 years of being told this behavior (harassment and assault) is wrong, 20 years of seeing people charged for it and probably nearly as long charging people for it.

They do it anyways. I think the idea that if we all condemn it it will correct itself isn't the reality of what happens. We let toxic leaders and toxic cultures slip through the cracks because we're still check in the box oriented.

There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 432,190
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 22,351
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: What I Wish I'd Known About Sexual Assault in the Military
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2019, 19:31:42 »
... We let toxic leaders and toxic cultures slip through the cracks because we're still check in the box oriented.
'And if that's happening, then there's not support @ the right levels just above the toxic leaders.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter