Author Topic: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists  (Read 1367 times)

Old EO Tech, MARS, garb811 and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 415,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,883
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« on: June 14, 2019, 16:10:25 »
This from the DND info-machine (also attached if link doesn't work for you)...
Quote
As promised in Canada’s defence policy Strong, Secure, Engaged, Reserve Force pay is being restructured to align with Regular Force pay where the demands of service are similar.

The new methodology for the Reserve Force applies the same base pay the Regular Force receives, plus the elements of the Military Factor that apply to reservists.

The Honourable Harjit S. Sajjan, Minister of National Defence, announced the change today at the 4th Battalion, Royal 22e Régiment in Laval, Quebec.

The restructuring of pay is part of an overall vision outlined in our defence policy, Strong, Secure, Engaged, which also includes increasing the Reserve Force by 1,500 members and further integrating reservists into operations. The Reserve Force is crucial to the success of our Canadian Armed Forces. Reservists come from all walks of life, and include students, civil servants, labourers, business people, academics, and former members of the Regular Force.

Reservists will receive more money in this new system in order to more fairly compensate them for their important service. Previously, Reserve Force pay was a simple 85 percent calculation of the total Regular Force pay. Regular Force pay is composed of two parts: base pay and Military Factor. The Military Factor is a percentage added to the base salaries of Canadian Armed Forces members that compensates them for additional requirements that don’t affect most public servants.

(...)

Quick facts

    The Military Factor is calculated using three military and two additional elements. The military considerations are: personal limitation and liability, separation, and posting turbulence. The two additional elements are overtime and acting for supervisors without an increase in pay.

    The Military Factor elements that apply to reservists under the new system are: personal limitation and liability, overtime, and acting for supervisors.

    Reservists cannot be posted to a different geographic location or be sent away from their families on an operation or exercise without their personal consent. This is different from Regular Force members, who are expected to move or deploy when directed, often frequently and on short notice; therefore separation and posting turbulence are not applied as part of the Military Factor

    The change of calculation from 85 percent to a base pay plus Military Factor approach will result in an increase of 7.8 percent. For example, the pay rate for a first year corporal will increase from $140 to $153 a day. Basic pay for a lieutenant “A” will increase from $147.62 to $161.18 a day.

    Reservists on Class A and Class B periods of service are paid on a daily rate, based on their rank and time in that rank. Reservists on Class C periods of service, such as those who deploy on operations, receive the same pay as Regular Force members, which is calculated at a monthly rate.

(...)
More @ link -- pay rates page for NCM's here & for officers here, but they don't look updated to include this announced change yet (last updates April & early June, respectively).
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Online MJP

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 162,350
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,431
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 17:12:14 »
I applaud this move, and it is recognizing the integration and work that already exists in the PRes/RegF world.

In the same vein, I await the day that the Pte-Cpl promotion times between the Reg Force and Reserves is fixed as well.  I think the right answer is move them all to 3 years, rather than keep the 2 & 4 year marks for the PRes & RegF respectively.  Only the CAF would say that a more trained and experienced person should have to wait longer to get promoted.

Hope is not a valid COA

Offline Monsoon

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 24,330
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 795
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2019, 18:00:24 »
In the same vein, I await the day that the Pte-Cpl promotion times between the Reg Force and Reserves is fixed as well.  I think the right answer is move them all to 3 years, rather than keep the 2 & 4 year marks for the PRes & RegF respectively.  Only the CAF would say that a more trained and experienced person should have to wait longer to get promoted.
Good point. In practice the different theoretical time-in-rank requirements are patched over by the very common use of accelerated promotion to Cpl in the RegF, which is not available to reservists. But there’s no obvious reason to have differing policies on either point.

Offline Kilted

  • Guest
  • *
  • 70
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2019, 18:26:22 »
So two questions.

1. Is this effective immediately?
2. Is it retroactive?

Offline dapaterson

    Mostly Harmless.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 451,100
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 16,495
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2019, 18:44:21 »
Effective 01 April 2019.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Tcm621

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 12,035
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 737
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2019, 22:24:13 »
I don't know how I feel about this. I am glad reservists get a pay bump and I'm not one of these guys who think all reservists are useless. However, I think the threat of postings, 24/7 adherence to the CSD, being forced on courses and deployments regardless of what is going on in your life is worth more than 9% (Res Cpl base pay of 152. 98 / Reg Cpl base pay 5014 or 168.13 per day equal ~91%). I actually thought 85% was pretty fair and I have served both Reg and Res.

I know a long term class B job is essentially doing the same job for less pay. However, if they want the same pay, CTs are a much better process then they used to be and maybe three years is way too long for a temporary position.


Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 500,185
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,252
    • The job.
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2019, 22:44:30 »
I actually thought 85% was pretty fair and I have served both Reg and Res.

See also,

Why we pay Reservists what we do
https://navy.ca/forums/index.php?topic=1010.325
14 pages.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:42:50 by mariomike »

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 288,501
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,777
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 13:40:04 »
I don't know how I feel about this. I am glad reservists get a pay bump and I'm not one of these guys who think all reservists are useless. However, I think the threat of postings, 24/7 adherence to the CSD, being forced on courses and deployments regardless of what is going on in your life is worth more than 9% (Res Cpl base pay of 152. 98 / Reg Cpl base pay 5014 or 168.13 per day equal ~91%). I actually thought 85% was pretty fair and I have served both Reg and Res.

I know a long term class B job is essentially doing the same job for less pay. However, if they want the same pay, CTs are a much better process then they used to be and maybe three years is way too long for a temporary position.

I agree with you.  As a reservist on class B I thought it was bullshit that I was doing a full time job and only making 85%. It wasn't until I switched over that I realized how total the army's (CFs) control can be of a members life and as you mention the threat of postings, forced courses and tasks and other stuff.

For example reg force member returns from a 7.5 month tour. He gets post deployment leave for a month, goes back to work for 3 weeks then is told he will be going to Meaford shortly for 4 months to fill a position because the reservist going pulled his name out of that task (and RUMINT has it, did so in order to get a spot in CG in Ottawa instead).


I think one of the biggest benefits the reserves offer the reg force is their ability to plug and play supporting deployments. Beefing up sections especially.
It's also a big hindrance for the same reasons.

The volume of tasks reserves showing up injured or b-lining to the cdu is an issue too Imo.


Reserves are important and the reg force needs them (just look at Afghanistan). That said now that I've seen both sides I think 85% is fair.
+60 « Last Edit: Yesterday at 13:56:38 by Jarnhamar »
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline clear.sky

  • Guest
  • *
  • 80
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 15:18:58 »
As a former Reservist and having deployed several times, I was glad to hear this news; not in the sense of helping equalizing the pay, though more so that this will help reservists financially afford being able to parade, attend training and deploy.

From a financial perspective, the pay I received didn't cover my family and living expenses even on Class B & C contracts. Parading on Class A time, I often had to choose between giving up work with my employer to make significantly less money.

You don't join the army to get rich. I hope this change helps support members so they can remain active.

I didn't have a concern making less than Regular Force members, as a Reservist I never had to pay for accommodations or a single meal aside from reimbursement in the 10 years I served.

Offline Halifax Tar

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 47,503
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,884
  • Ready Aye Ready
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 16:24:03 »
This is good news for the reserves. 

Now how about working some retention benefits for the reg force ? 
+300
Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 108,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,258
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 16:29:06 »
This is good news for the reserves. 

Now how about working some retention benefits for the reg force ?

This is exactly the right attitude for this and how it should be approached.
Optio

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 173,365
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,121
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 20:10:33 »
Wing Operations has lots of reservists.  This is a good plan since they take a lot of the shift work.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 106,020
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,616
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 20:15:11 »
Reservists in the US are part time,but if they are on active duty they draw full pay and allowances just like any regular. Why not do the same ?

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 288,501
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,777
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 21:36:11 »
I hope this does away with the shady practice of giving reservists 89 day class B contracts so we don't have to give them as much benefits or whatever that was for.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 108,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,258
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 22:23:46 »
I hope this does away with the shady practice of giving reservists 89 day class B contracts so we don't have to give them as much benefits or whatever that was for.

Not likely.  The CAF is addicted to class B.  class B contracts and such need a complete overhaul.
Optio

Offline Tcm621

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 12,035
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 737
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #15 on: Today at 00:21:12 »
Not likely.  The CAF is addicted to class B.  class B contracts and such need a complete overhaul.

Start with no class B over 6 months. If the job is continuous fill it with Reg force or a make it C class. Have a reservist sign a 3 year class C, treat them like Reg force for 3 years and send them back to their unit when they are done.

There are too many people who have 15+ years of class B on an 18 year career.

Offline PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 919,670
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,170
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #16 on: Today at 08:25:45 »
This is good news for the reserves. 

Now how about working some retention benefits for the reg force ?

You won't get any. A lot of folks will just create themselves a Cl B job, release into that job and tolerate a 8% pay cut to not get screwed around by being posted every couple years risking losing any equity you have in a home and uprooting your family. I personally think its appalling that all the extra stuff expected of a Reg F member is now only worth a paltry 8% above a PRes member, and I speak as someone who spent a long time as a Cl A, B and C Reservist before I went Reg F.
+300

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 108,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,258
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #17 on: Today at 08:42:13 »
I personally think its appalling that all the extra stuff expected of a Reg F member is now only worth a paltry 8% above a PRes member, and I speak as someone who spent a long time as a Cl A, B and C Reservist before I went Reg F.

That calculation always existed. They just gave the reserves the factors that applied to them that they should have had from the get go. 

Now if 8% isn’t an accurate or fair number for the unique factors of the reg force then that is a different issue.
Optio

Offline Monsoon

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 24,330
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 795
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #18 on: Today at 13:00:04 »
That calculation always existed. They just gave the reserves the factors that applied to them that they should have had from the get go. 

Now if 8% isn’t an accurate or fair number for the unique factors of the reg force then that is a different issue.
Very, very well-put. For my part, I’ve always been skeptical of the mathematical magic that goes into the “military factor”: it’s pretty clear that the paths leading to the Director level in the public service and the military are extremely divergent (grad school and a few years’ experience, versus grad school and about 30 years experience), to the point that you have to wonder how we can be talking about comparable roles.

As far as the military factor for relocation as it applies to the RegF: I think we all know more than a few people who have spent 20+ years working in the same geographical location. If you want to reward people for relocating, develop a mechanism to do so (instead of “smearing” that reward across an entire workforce that includes many folks who have successfully put down roots in one location).

Offline PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 919,670
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,170
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: June 2019: Higher Pay for Reservists
« Reply #19 on: Today at 16:39:23 »

As far as the military factor for relocation as it applies to the RegF: I think we all know more than a few people who have spent 20+ years working in the same geographical location. If you want to reward people for relocating, develop a mechanism to do so (instead of “smearing” that reward across an entire workforce that includes many folks who have successfully put down roots in one location).

Thats apparently being worked on, whether we'll see it in this lifetime is another thing. Don't get me wrong, good on the PRes for getting a pay raise. However, I think the fact that they're so close to what a RegF member makes, with a significant increase in "military factors" really shows how poorly compensated we are. The sad truth is, if the RegF gets a pay raise to compensate for the uniqueness of RegF service, then the career Cl B junkies will soon come calling for more money because "its not fair they're paid less".