Author Topic: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes  (Read 5651 times)

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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2019, 15:07:22 »
Cancelling the carbon tax is justification enough for me to vote for them. The Tories are the only main party to commit to cancelling it.

As for a serious climate change plan, do you realize that if we cut our emissions in half (ignoring the massive forests that absorb our CO2 anyway), we'll change global emissions by a paltry 0.7% but completely devastate our economy in the process? The only short/medium term climate plan that makes any sense is federal funding to replace all Coal generating stations with nuclear power. That would cut our emissions by 60 megatonnes, or just under 10% of our total emissions. That number goes up to 80 megatonnes if we replace the natural gas stations with nuclear as well. Conveniently, that would put us on track to meet the Paris Accord commitment of 30% below 2005 levels by 2030, with time to spare as a nuclear plant takes approx 60 months (quick Google research) to build and turn on.

The Liberals have failed on their keystone platform of "climate change", with the Liberals even getting further behind every year they're in office: https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/canada-further-from-paris-targets-than-last-year-new-projections-show

...assuming no one holds Canada partially, or fully accountable for the increased CO2 emissions that will directly result from burning all that coal that B.C. is exporting via whale-friendly bulk-carrier ships... :nod:

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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2019, 15:23:07 »
The Conservatives statement of intent is no carbon tax on home heating only (I think).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucrlrLj2vTI

I will scrap the carbon tax Andrew Scheer - 2 Apr 19


Can't find that statement in a search of the CPC website, but this turns up from the month before:


https://media.conservative.ca/en/news-releases/conservatives-to-remove-gst-from-home-heating

Part of Andrew Scheer’s plan to make life more affordable for Canadians
- March 6, 2019
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Mississauga, Ontario – The Leader of Canada’s Conservatives and of the Official Opposition, the Honourable Andrew Scheer, today announced the next step in his plan to make life more affordable for Canadians.

A Conservative government, led by Andrew Scheer, will remove the Goods and Services Tax (GST) from home heating and energy bills, which will save the average Canadian household $107 per year.

“It’s hard enough to get ahead these days without the government taking money out of your pocket,” Scheer said. “Heating your home in the winter isn’t a luxury for Canadians. It is a necessity. We don’t tax other basic necessities like groceries and we shouldn’t be taxing home heating.”

The Conservative leader emphasized that under his plan Canadians will not only save the cost of the federal tax on their home heating and energy bills, they will also save hundreds of dollars more each year after he cancels Justin Trudeau’s Carbon Tax.

“His Carbon Tax will increase the cost of everyday essentials like gasoline, groceries, and home heating and make life more expensive for everyone. As Prime Minister, I will put this money back in the pockets of Canadians where it belongs,” Scheer said.

“Canada should have a government that helps people achieve their dreams, not a government that stands in the way,” Scheer said. “My plan to remove the GST from home heating and energy bills is just one of the ways that a Conservative government will help Canadians get ahead.”
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Offline ballz

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2019, 15:39:21 »
I'm not sure blaming Scheer for a potential Liberal win in the election makes sense. As unhappy as I am with Trudeau government, I'm not sure that the Conservatives have actually provided a reason to vote for them.

I fail to see how that is not their leader's fault?

I think the carbon tax puts the Conservatives in a bad place... I'm quite confident there is no more efficient way to change behaviors than taxes. I am actually not against a carbon tax, but I am against the nuances of the way the Liberals are rolling it out. This whole "collect it and then give it back" just causes unnecessary administration. I would be on board with a carbon tax that coincided, based on the calculation of how much revenue will be collected through it, with a cut to the GST. Not only would it be revenue-neutral without the unnecessary administration, but the effect of making carbon-products slightly more expensive, and everything else slightly cheaper, would have a better effect on influencing behaviors than only increasing the price of carbon-products. Unfortunately, the Conservatives have been so outright against the idea that this road isn't really open to them.

I'm also very interested in some stuff coming into the market now. The addition of "plug-in hybrids" seems like to me like they've finally created a product that is viable. There is also a company in California now that converts existing vehicles into plug-in hybrids, which if i were offered in Canada would be a great place to put a tax credit (I'm against tax credits, but I digress).
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2019, 15:49:57 »
Carbon Tax - Replacing the Gold Standard with the Carbon Standard.

An interesting concept where everybody buys and mines their own gold and runs their own mint and the exchange is monitored by a sales tax.

How much credit do I get for the wheat my carbon creates?
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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2019, 16:30:21 »
My apologies for a late reply.  I've been reloading and de-mounting a scope all day.

I didn’t say worse.  Just not any better.

A few things come to mind.  Most Canadians don’t see him as the head of the conservatives party.  A good chunk think Doug Ford is.  That is telling.

Honestly thats the first time I have heard that.  Gives me something to think about, I shall dig on this.

Also, he has the same tune every time.  Everything is a scandal everything needs an investigation and calls for one all the time.  So when something like the SNC Lavalin scandal comes up.  Something that should be investigated it rings hollow from him because he’s been crying wolf on the mundane stuff.  When he call for the pm to step down it sounds like the same tune he always has.  So some voters like me roll our eyes when he does call for resignations and investigations.

We may partially agree here.  I think Scheer was overly dramatic immediately after the SNC affair and JWR's input was made public.  But I think as the event and "facts" have unfolded, he was correct.

It seems to have become the Oppositions job, in about the last 20 years, to jump on the sitting government and call for heads to roll at the drop of pin.  Thats not Scheer's doing, that has become SOP for parliamentarians.  The same as it has become SOP for sitting governments not to answer questions in they HOC, instead the issue sound bites, blame the prior parties and deflect.

In short we have a problem with our governance more than we do with individuals I would reckon.  Perhaps we expect too little of our elected leaders ?


I don’t think he’s been very effective as an opposition leader.  It makes me wonder how effectively he might be as a leader of the government.

What effectiveness does/could the Opposition Leader have in a majority parliament situation?  Other than harassment of the sitting government.  What did you expect ?

Campaigns matter.  My decision will be formed during the campaign when I can see what all parties have to offer.  My suspicion though is that it might boil down to my choice for MP.  I’d rather see someone else leading the Liberals just as much as I’d rather see someone else leading the CPC. But we have what we have.

Fair.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2019, 19:33:59 »
hmmm, I don't disagree with the main thesis of the "Cabal", but JWR is a person of immense talent? At what? She was a junior prosecutor for 3 years, and gained a reputation with defence counsel as a Crown counsel who will cave on every criminal indigenous file she was assigned, that hardly makes her "immensely talented" for the role of AG. She abused her position in the role of AG and Justice Minister to skewer the Crown and taxpayers in any indigenous litigation, over the documented objection of far more experienced and senior counsel.

With respect to her various positions as an indigenous leader, she was a rascal activist with a title, a large paycheque and just used the playbook developed by her and her illustrious "social anthropologist" husband, not a frickin' rocket scientist, doctor, engineer or anybody else with real talent. 

I don't know much about the other parliamentarian, and while I do not disagree with JWR's "decision" on SNC, I pretty much disagree with everything else that she did in her role.  If there is a cabal of liberal power brokers, there is also another cabal of activists in positions of power who are abusing their authority and the trust put in them to serve the public interest and the greater good, which is not something the former AG ostensibly agrees with.
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Online Remius

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2019, 21:18:12 »
Here is the most current Nanos poll.

http://www.nanos.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Political-Package-2019-04-12-FR.pdf

Even I have to say wtf.

Look at preferred leader and who people think display the qualities of a leader.

I have to wonder if the number so that Maxime Bernier are showing are actually eating away at Scheer and the CPC.  8.7 percent is a significant amount that would put the CPC way over. 

This is after the whole snc thing. 

Maybe the Liberal scare tactics are working, maybe it is the climate change debate.  Not sure.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2019, 21:30:36 »
What I find most interesting is the Green growth.  Their improvement in the polls seems to be sticking, so the question to me is how effective their votes will be, and who benefits from them.  Where is the tipping point where they become a viable national party, and which of the three do they displace? (Displace by 2030 or so).
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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2019, 21:32:35 »
Maybe PEI will be the litmus test for the east coast.
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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2019, 22:51:01 »
One big reason I won't ever vote for liberals. I've mentioned this before and basically been called  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

Well now there's two of us that think that way.

https://business.financialpost.com/diane-francis/the-crushing-of-wilson-raybould-and-philpott-is-proof-canada-is-run-by-a-liberal-cabal?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0JgpFc0dEPlLmFnAoyJL4U_68TltODuHdT8q4sjHaqqGft3kN5Ewt6Ano#Echobox=1555932552

Actually there are three of us and I, for one, have never called you out on this issue. I'm not sure cabal is the word I would use but cronyism is one that I definitely would. Spent much of my time in Manitoba and watched the backroom workings of the Axworthy and Asper/CanWest machines at work (anyone else remember Russel Mills being fired from the Ottawa Citizen for criticising Chretien?)

This is the one single issue why I can't vote Liberal regardless of how attractive they try to paint their policies (and quite frankly, this last regime has shown very few that I agree with anyway seeing as fiscal responsibility and significant defence reform are high on my priority list)

 :cheers:
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Online Remius

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2019, 06:29:00 »
global news put this out yesterday.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5191123/federal-election-seat-projection-trudeau-liberals-minority/?utm_source=GlobalNews&utm_medium=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1zeTH9__BcKrzciiZo-tGrFQCQo35eN4SCf4f71Yzw35DJcSS6_E_mq04

So, in line with this thread, what happens to Scheer in that scenario? Does he stay on or will there be pressure to find a more electable leader?
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2019, 09:22:52 »
Failing a Palace coup, most leaders are the party and the party is the reflection of the leader. I don't put stock in polls much any more.

You can see the political bias bleed through in their projects and research. Some are pretty blatant in their postures towards their preference. There are still polls out there showing trudeau at the top of the heap by fairly positive majorities. Yet, all indications are he's in the toilet.

Then there are the polls that are so overwhelmingly wrong as to be laughable, like Trump won't win and others of a like lopsided surprise.

We all know most polls are designed to reach a predetermined result, for a predetermined audience. The questions are skewed in favour of the poll flavour. The demographics are picked to reflect the people they want to answer the poll.

The only science behind polls is the science of predictability. You get the answer you pays for. Plain and simple.

Having said all that, I saw a recent poll that said something along the line that somewhere in the 60-65 percentile of eligible Canadians said it was time for trudeau and the liberals to go. I didn't grab it for discussion, simply because of my feelings above. It is just another piece of bumph and UFI. Not worthy for discussion, not reliable enough to take to the bank, not fact by any stretch of the imagination.

Polls are distractions. Not much different than personal opinion pieces sent to and pumped out by partisan media. They'll print what fits their agenda.

They are nothing but opinion and we know what nothing but opinion will get you, in discussions like those here.

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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2019, 09:28:03 »
Maybe PEI will be the litmus test for the east coast.

Possibly.  I think that the green Party is going to attract more and more disaffected NDP members and some Liberal voters to some extent.  The NDP is going through a bit of an identity crisis. 
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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2019, 10:20:54 »
Perhaps the Greens will do to the Liberals, what Maxime has done to the Cons. 

So we now have a center left party (Lib) and two left wing parties (Green, NDP) and one Center right party (Con) and one right wing party (PPC).

Those two left wing parties may end up causing some trouble for the Liberals. One captures to social(ist) vote and one the environmentalist vote.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 10:30:42 by Halifax Tar »
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2019, 10:28:56 »
Perhaps the Greens will do to the Liberals, what Maxime has done to the Cons. 

So we now have a center left party (Lib) and two left wing parties (Green, NDP) and one Center right party (Con) and one left wing party (PPC).

Those two left wing parties may end up causing some trouble for the Liberals. One captures to social(ist) vote and one the environmentalist vote.

Given the move to socialism, I'd hesitate to call the liberals centre left. I think they are much further left than centre.

Nor would I call the PPC left wing, but right of centre.
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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2019, 10:31:31 »
Given the move to socialism, I'd hesitate to call the liberals centre left. I think they are much further left than centre.

Well the Libs are as close to the centre the left has in Canada.

Nor would I call the PPC left wing, but right of centre.

Typo, fixed.
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Online Remius

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2019, 10:35:23 »
Perhaps the Greens will do to the Liberals, what Maxime has done to the Cons. 

So we now have a center left party (Lib) and two left wing parties (Green, NDP) and one Center right party (Con) and one right wing party (PPC).

Those two left wing parties may end up causing some trouble for the Liberals. One captures to social(ist) vote and one the environmentalist vote.

I think it will have a larger impact on the NDP vote share.

The PPC may take 5-10% of the conservative vote share.  The Greens might garner 2-3% of the left leaning Liberals but likely similar numbers from the NDP as the PPC takes from the CPC.  So maybe 4-8% of the NDP share. 
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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2019, 10:47:59 »
I think it will have a larger impact on the NDP vote share.

The PPC may take 5-10% of the conservative vote share.  The Greens might garner 2-3% of the left leaning Liberals but likely similar numbers from the NDP as the PPC takes from the CPC.  So maybe 4-8% of the NDP share.

I really dont think the PPC will skim that much.  IMHO they will be lucky to get seat.

As for the NDP and Greens; with the right youthful leaders they destroy the Liberals.  There are millions of 18-30 year olds who want nothing more than to not vote Liberal or Con.  Unfortunately Elizabeth May and Jagmeet Singh aren't the right people, IMHO.
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Online Remius

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2019, 10:53:11 »
I really dont think the PPC will skim that much.  IMHO they will be lucky to get seat.

As for the NDP and Greens; with the right youthful leaders they destroy the Liberals.  There are millions of 18-30 year olds who want nothing more than to not vote Liberal or Con.  Unfortunately Elizabeth May and Jagmeet Singh aren't the right people, IMHO.

Oh, I don't think it will translate into seats.  Just popular vote.  But that could split the vote in some ridings allowing up the middle wins.

True about dynamic leadership.  There is a generation of young voters coming soon that care about the environment and what is being done about it.  Traditional parties may want to heed that going forward. 
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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2019, 11:00:06 »
Oh, I don't think it will translate into seats.  Just popular vote.  But that could split the vote in some ridings allowing up the middle wins.

True about dynamic leadership.  There is a generation of young voters coming soon that care about the environment and what is being done about it.  Traditional parties may want to heed that going forward.

This is the difference with the Libs and Cons.  There is no viable alternative to conservative minded folks.  The PPC is not an option in Canada.  Too radical and a heavy perception of racism.  They wont be around more than a single election cycle me thinks.

I am a card carrying member of the Cons.  But I strongly suggest my party rids itself of abortion and gay rights issues.  These are dead topics in Canada.  Its time to move on to things that matter like alternatives for the environment, foreign affairs/defence, balanced budgets and equalization payments.  The former topics will get you people from across the board with the right solutions.
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Offline Monsoon

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2019, 12:14:57 »
I am a card carrying member of the Cons.  But I strongly suggest my party rids itself of abortion and gay rights issues.
The Conservative party position on abortion and gay rights has been amply clear for ages. Remember that time they ran the country for a decade and supported abortion and gay rights? What more could it possibly do to "rid itself" of "issues"? The continued existence of "issues" will continue to be a Liberal talking point (remember the "hidden agenda"?), but I'd expect an actual party supporter to be aware of the reality.

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2019, 12:34:06 »
The Conservative party position on abortion and gay rights has been amply clear for ages. Remember that time they ran the country for a decade and supported abortion and gay rights? What more could it possibly do to "rid itself" of "issues"? The continued existence of "issues" will continue to be a Liberal talking point (remember the "hidden agenda"?), but I'd expect an actual party supporter to be aware of the reality.

Ages?

Monsoon, I agree that there is a bit of hysteria in regards to the "hidden agenda" but let's be real.  Until 2017 the CPC had a clause defining marriage as being between one man and one woman. There was no support per se for gay rights but rather an explicit no go zone.  The last leadership campaign did show that there is a segment of the conservative movement that want those debates reopened.  Stephen harper never once went to a pride parade in his ten years in power.  Now, he does not have to and that is a fair choice on his or any other leader's part.   

But there is distrust and Halifax Tar was highlighting that.
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Online Halifax Tar

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2019, 12:40:56 »
The Conservative party position on abortion and gay rights has been amply clear for ages. Remember that time they ran the country for a decade and supported abortion and gay rights? What more could it possibly do to "rid itself" of "issues"? The continued existence of "issues" will continue to be a Liberal talking point (remember the "hidden agenda"?), but I'd expect an actual party supporter to be aware of the reality.

I you think underestimate the amount of Con Party members who wish change governance around gay rights and abortion. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJdgqhQhODU

He could have come out and said, unequivocally Yes to gay rights and Yes to abortion, with-out having to play his personal beliefs and constituents beliefs.  The undercurrent their is scary.

My party needs to come out and simply say we stand for equal distribution of liberties to all Canadians on all issues.  This includes the full envelope of Canadian Rights and freedoms to all Canadians inclusive of LGBTQ+ and the right for a woman to choose to have an abortion.  Get it over with once and for all and close the door for the Liberals to be able to attack this point. 

Those in my party who feel differently need to come to grips with the fact that the country has decided and moved on. 

Lastly you can keep your uncalled for an snarky remarks to yourself, thank you.
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Online Blackadder1916

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Re: CPC Leadership Potentials if Scheer Implodes
« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2019, 12:43:32 »
The Conservative party position on abortion and gay rights has been amply clear for ages. Remember that time they ran the country for a decade and supported abortion and gay rights? What more could it possibly do to "rid itself" of "issues"? The continued existence of "issues" will continue to be a Liberal talking point (remember the "hidden agenda"?), but I'd expect an actual party supporter to be aware of the reality.

I wouldn't say "amply" when the social conservatives in the party regularly attempt to bring the issue back to the platform.

Eight months ago.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-conservative-policy-convention-1.4798918
Quote
A slim majority of Conservative convention delegates voted Saturday against a resolution backed by anti-abortion campaigners while at the same time affirming the party's opposition to using Canadian foreign aid to fund abortion services abroad — a mixed bag result for social conservatives.

Other controversial resolutions, including a push to limit citizenship rights for those born in this country to non-Canadian parents and an endorsement of moving Canada's embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, received overwhelming support.

The abortion resolution, No. 65, would have struck from the party's policy book a pledge that a Conservative government would not support any legislation to regulate abortion, something added under former prime minister Stephen Harper to reassure some Canadians that the Conservative Party did not have a "hidden agenda" to legislate an abortion ban.

If the resolution had passed, an elected Conservative government would have been free to introduce anti-abortion legislation.

Some delegates said they were pro-choice but still supported stripping this policy from the Conservative playbook because they said the party should be entirely neutral on the issue, like they agreed to be on same-sex marriage at the party's last convention in Vancouver when they over turned a gay marriage prohibition.

The abortion resolution failed by a vote of 53 to 47 per cent.

The social conservative wing of the party holds a lot of sway; Andrew Scheer, who has identified with this branch in the past, likely wouldn't be leader without them, and they represent a not-insignificant number of the party's total membership.

They are also known in party circles as well-organized, devoted convention-goers who rarely miss a chance to put their ideas front and centre.

And so, while facing defeat on the larger abortion resolution, they claimed victory on another policy proposal which would enshrine in the party's policy book a pledge to oppose abortion funding in Canada's foreign aid.
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