Author Topic: New Deployment Fitness Test  (Read 2328 times)

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Offline Halifax Tar

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New Deployment Fitness Test
« on: November 15, 2017, 04:54:41 »
I am assuming the writers of, and General, in this article are speaking army centric here.  As this test isn’t worth peanuts to a ships coy deploying... Not sure about the RCAF...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/troops-fitness-deployed-test-1.4402024
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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 05:22:35 »
I am assuming the writers of, and General, in this article are speaking army centric here.  As this test isn’t worth peanuts to a ships coy deploying... Not sure about the RCAF...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/troops-fitness-deployed-test-1.4402024

Current force is, honestly, fairly relevent. Seeking cover, moving a load, pulling a casualty, all are tasks that can reasonable to expected to be preformed. Even air crew can get hit with mortars and rockets, or in a conventional sense enemy air. Easily justified for Navy too.
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 05:31:32 »
From what I have read in the original document it supposed to be the March, followed by dropping the small pack, 5 min rest and then right into the FORCE test with no breaks in between. All with weapon and gear.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 06:49:52 »
Current force is, honestly, fairly relevent. Seeking cover, moving a load, pulling a casualty, all are tasks that can reasonable to expected to be preformed. Even air crew can get hit with mortars and rockets, or in a conventional sense enemy air. Easily justified for Navy too.

We cant march anywhere, we very rarely lift sand bags, we cant pepper pod on a ship, the cas drag perhaps but doing it in buker gear would be more realistic.

Not to mention we arent issued field kit...

Tell me how this relates to naval deployments again ? 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 06:53:12 by Halifax Tar »
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 06:51:30 »
From what I have read in the original document it supposed to be the March, followed by dropping the small pack, 5 min rest and then right into the FORCE test with no breaks in between. All with weapon and gear.

How will they incorporate this for Naval deployments ?  Seems fitting for a land based deplployment but out to lunch for those at sea.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 07:02:07 »
I have a sneaking suspicion that this will end up being just for Army-centric deployments.  It's not super-relevant for, say, a fast-jet deployment or the majority of Aurora deployments where we aren't issued helmets or weapons.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 07:04:41 »
I have a sneaking suspicion that this will end up being just for Army-centric deployments.  It's not super-relevant for, say, a fast-jet deployment or the majority of Aurora deployments where we aren't issued helmets or weapons.

Thays my guess too.  But its a good example, reading the article, how insular the Army can be.

I especially like the shot at Navy cooks.
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 07:10:26 »
Thays my guess too.  But its a good example, reading the article, how insular the Army can be.

I especially like the shot at Navy cooks.

If you look at the document section on the article it is only for army deployments.
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Offline FSTO

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 07:39:54 »
Once again the Canadian Media continues the idea that the CAF is Army only.

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 07:42:00 »
Thays my guess too.  But its a good example, reading the article, how insular the Army can be.

I especially like the shot at Navy cooks.
The navy cook part isn't quoted, so you can store the pitchforks for now. What does your navy deployment pt test look like?



Once again the Canadian Media continues the idea that the CAF is Army only.

Clearly we need more things that say Navy and pieces of flair on NCDs to solve that issue.

There should absolutely not be any waivers. You don't pass you don't go. Everyone is replaceable. It's not a hard test.

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 07:54:46 »
What does your navy deployment pt test look like?

Unless things have changed, the navy doesn't do that silly stuff.  If the ship's going, you go with it.  We practice the battle/damage control drills that we would be doing on a regular basis and would do a good deal of it in workups for a mission anyhow.  Why do a test to do what you're already doing to begin with?

When I was going into the sandbox with Roto 7, that was a different matter.  While in Rome...  we may be in the same CAF but we're different animals with different needs.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 07:57:37 »
The navy cook part isn't quoted, so you can store the pitchforks for now. What does your navy deployment pt test look like?



Clearly we need more things that say Navy and pieces of flair on NCDs to solve that issue.

There should absolutely not be any waivers. You don't pass you don't go. Everyone is replaceable. It's not a hard test.

Did i quote the Gen or are you inserting your own insinuation ?

Force test.  Whats your point ?
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 08:07:56 »
Not sure how this will make sure I can do my job properly, which is stay to focused for up to 10 hours straight sitting in place...

If I have to get out, you can be sure I'll carry a lot less than 35kg and I won't have to drag anybody around.

From my perspective, a waste of time rather than something meaningful.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 08:29:17 »
The navy cook part isn't quoted, so you can store the pitchforks for now.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but to me it looks like he's singling out Navy cooks?
Quote
Though he expects few people to fail, Hetherington says the Forces could grant "special waivers" to people such as a navy cook who may have been unable to pass but is required to be deployed.

Quote
There should absolutely not be any waivers. You don't pass you don't go. Everyone is replaceable. It's not a hard test.
But isn't this a common enough practice already?  If someones skills are deemed essential then we deploy them anyways.

Not sure how this will make sure I can do my job properly, which is stay to focused for up to 10 hours straight sitting in place...


I'd say there needs to be some kind of common test or baseline.
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 08:38:54 »
Maybe I'm reading it wrong but to me it looks like he's singling out Navy cooks?But isn't this a common enough practice already?  If someones skills are deemed essential then we deploy them anyways.

I'd say there needs to be some kind of common test or baseline.

I thought the FORCE was the baseline with the other operational tests for the various elements. Wasn't FORCE developed by taking into account what happened on a ship as well as other activities. I honestly don't see the need for another test for a ship deploying as our job at sea doesn't really change.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 08:52:50 »
I thought the FORCE was the baseline with the other operational tests for the various elements. Wasn't FORCE developed by taking into account what happened on a ship as well as other activities. I honestly don't see the need for another test for a ship deploying as our job at sea doesn't really change.

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 09:01:43 »
I thought the FORCE was the baseline with the other operational tests for the various elements. Wasn't FORCE developed by taking into account what happened on a ship as well as other activities. I honestly don't see the need for another test for a ship deploying as our job at sea doesn't really change.

My understanding is that ST(A) and ST(P) are the "test" for ships deploying, ensuring their readiness.  (Although, to be fair, it's a collective and not an individual validation).


I believe the confusion here is that the Army is recycling the FORCE name for a different test - an Individual Battle Task Standard (IBTS), not a fitness test.

Or, in other words, FORCE remains the CAF fitness test.  FORCE Combat is now an Army IBTS.  But the IBTS does not replace the fitness test. 
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Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2017, 09:05:16 »
My understanding is that ST(A) and ST(P) are the "test" for ships deploying, ensuring their readiness.  (Although, to be fair, it's a collective and not an individual validation).


I believe the confusion here is that the Army is recycling the FORCE name for a different test - an Individual Battle Task Standard (IBTS), not a fitness test.

Or, in other words, FORCE remains the CAF fitness test.  FORCE Combat is now an Army IBTS.  But the IBTS does not replace the fitness test.

Thanks I suspected so much.
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 09:20:52 »
My understanding is that ST(A) and ST(P) are the "test" for ships deploying, ensuring their readiness.  (Although, to be fair, it's a collective and not an individual validation).


I believe the confusion here is that the Army is recycling the FORCE name for a different test - an Individual Battle Task Standard (IBTS), not a fitness test.

Or, in other words, FORCE remains the CAF fitness test.  FORCE Combat is now an Army IBTS.  But the IBTS does not replace the fitness test.

Work ups (WUPS) for a ship is the deployment readiness training/test. It is difficult and physically demanding on everyone.

It is not the same as an individual physical fitness test. Which the FORCE test already seems to do a pretty good job of testing what I have to do on a ship. The sandbags could be firehose or AFFF cans, for all I care. The up/down part of the rush actually simulates utility work in the aft cabin of the of the helicopter remarkably well.

It is a good test.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 09:24:48 »
Work ups (WUPS) for a ship is the deployment readiness training/test. It is difficult and physically demanding on everyone.

Thanks for the clarification.

Quote
It is not the same as an individual physical fitness test. Which the FORCE test already seems to do a pretty good job of testing what I have to do on a ship. The sandbags could be firehose or AFFF cans, for all I care. The up/down part of the rush actually simulates utility work in the aft cabin of the of the helicopter remarkably well.

It is a good test.

Indeed.
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Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 09:40:34 »
My understanding is that ST(A) and ST(P) are the "test" for ships deploying, ensuring their readiness.  (Although, to be fair, it's a collective and not an individual validation).


I believe the confusion here is that the Army is recycling the FORCE name for a different test - an Individual Battle Task Standard (IBTS), not a fitness test.

Or, in other words, FORCE remains the CAF fitness test.  FORCE Combat is now an Army IBTS.  But the IBTS does not replace the fitness test.

The LBM - Load Bearing March (13km) is the Army IBTS standard... Force Combat is for deployable and CADTC Units IIRC....
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 09:44:14 »
The LBM - Load Bearing March (13km) is the Army IBTS standard... Force Combat is for deployable and CADTC Units IIRC....

No.  LBM has been replaced by FORCE Combat.

https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/Pages/Frequently-Asked-Questions.aspx

This is not an employment standard, FORCE remains the CAF physical employment Standard. FORCE Combat will replace the 13km march (BFT) as the physical fitness check in Individual Battle Tasks Standards (IBTS).
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Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 09:45:28 »
How about they first give us all the kit needed to do this stupid test... ;D
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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 10:08:44 »
Quote
This is not an employment standard, FORCE remains the CAF physical employment Standard. FORCE Combat will replace the 13km march (BFT) as the physical fitness check in Individual Battle Tasks Standards (IBTS).

Hence the reason why they can waive it if someone doesn't meet the test requirement. The Force test remains the one that goes on your MPRR and PER.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: New Deployment Fitness Test
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 12:12:45 »
I thought the FORCE was the baseline with the other operational tests for the various elements.
Absolutely right,my mistake.  I was mixing up FORCE test with FORCE Combat.
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