Author Topic: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]  (Read 62553 times)

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Offline Greater_Ape

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #250 on: February 13, 2019, 23:17:52 »
My issue with the ETVs  is not the day rate, it's the fact that we're leasing a capability that in my opinion is superfluous.  We're not in the business of towing oil rigs.  I don't think the CCG or the public is going to get their money's worth with these 16,000hp Offshore Supply Vessels that are likely going to sit idle at the dock for months on end.
I think the money could have been better spent elsewhere.  But I'm an engineer so what do I know. When you spend most of your days below waterline you don't get to see the big picture  ;).

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #251 on: February 14, 2019, 08:59:43 »
We're absolutely in the business of towing oil rigs in an emergency... or anything else stricken and potentially a hazard to life or the environment...

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/business/energy-environment/shell-oil-rig-runs-aground-in-alaska.html

Oil rigs aren't the primary concern though, tankers are.

Despite all the tanker traffic on the west coast, the coast guard had no vessels capable of effectively towing one in an emergency, and with that, very little experience towing vessels that size.

I don't know the full details of the contract, but there's no reason to expect their sole task will be towing... they're quite capable of performing many of the tasks other coast guard vessels perform... the Grenfel manages... she even manages to lay bouys.

Though ironically, many of those other vessels spend months idling at the wharf as well when they're on primary SAR standby.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:02:56 by Not a Sig Op »

Offline Colin P

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #252 on: February 14, 2019, 10:18:46 »
The problem is that the CCG on this coast has no large ship tow capacity and there are very few tugs that do. The last incident with the Russian freighter, none the tugs available were certified to go that far out to rescue her. If LNGCanada continues to go ahead that will change for the North Coast as there will be several large modern escort tugs. When we rigged up the Pearkes to tow the Exxon tanker, we felt at best we would be able to hold her in position and that was in fairly calm weather. There has been a few incidents with pusher tugs out here with oil barges. We been lucky so far. The last freighter I am aware of going aground in the Queen Charlotte Islands was around 1956.
 It would have been better to help Smit and Seaspan out here to acquire a large tug each that would do normal work within an zone and be able to go out to respond to calls. The other option is to buy and man with CCG personal, anchor handling vessels that could do CCG NavAid and SAR work as well. Problem with that is no one wants to work with CCG anymore, pays sucks compared to industry when they actually manage to pay you. When LNGC kicks in they are going to suck up even more ticketed CCG personal as well.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #253 on: February 14, 2019, 12:59:04 »
The other option is to buy and man with CCG personal, anchor handling vessels that could do CCG NavAid and SAR work as well.

Are those duties not included in the contract for these vessels?

No reason they can't do that work as long as they're within suitable range to respond for towing as well.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 13:02:13 by Not a Sig Op »

Offline Colin P

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #254 on: February 14, 2019, 17:14:27 »
Not sure what the contract allows, but taking union jobs with non-PSAC employees would be seen as a threat to PSAC and the big ship CCG senior officers types alike.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #255 on: February 15, 2019, 01:21:52 »
Not sure what the contract allows, but taking union jobs with non-PSAC employees would be seen as a threat to PSAC and the big ship CCG senior officers types alike.

I haven't read the contract either, but I have read the solicitation  documents from the tender...

From the operations overview in appendix a...




"The contractor will provide two vessels crewed by certificated personnel and equipped to undertake emergency towing operations as per the contract.

The CCG will deploy and operate these vessels as units within the CCG fleet primarily tasked to the ER program to provide an emergency towing response when required.

The vessels will also be deployed to conduct preparedness activities related to the ER program such as exercising, training, community engagement, scientific assesment and monitoring, while maintaining the standby posture.

Concurrent with the ER deployment, the vessels will be multi-tasked to provide a level of SAR coverage within their area of operation will also support other programs and CCG activities."




The vessel itself was required to provide accomodations for for additional SAR equipment to be furnished by the government, as well as a 20' ISO container of environmental response gear.

2 FRCs with davit's were listed as a requirement, and bulwarks and a crane suitable for launch and recovery of bouys was listed as a desirable.

It also defines an operations area for the vessels, based on a suitable response time for towing.

Aside from the vessel, the other major deliverable was a training program on board the ship, to teach coast guard officers towing... minimum space on board for the program was 6 desirable was 12... the two vessels they got  should have far more bunk space available than that.



Really sounds like they're planning on doing a lot more then leaving them idling at the wharf...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 05:52:46 by Not a Sig Op »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #256 on: February 19, 2019, 22:41:56 »
The problem is that the CCG on this coast has no large ship tow capacity and there are very few tugs that do. The last incident with the Russian freighter, none the tugs available were certified to go that far out to rescue her. If LNGCanada continues to go ahead that will change for the North Coast as there will be several large modern escort tugs. When we rigged up the Pearkes to tow the Exxon tanker, we felt at best we would be able to hold her in position and that was in fairly calm weather. There has been a few incidents with pusher tugs out here with oil barges. We been lucky so far. The last freighter I am aware of going aground in the Queen Charlotte Islands was around 1956.
 It would have been better to help Smit and Seaspan out here to acquire a large tug each that would do normal work within an zone and be able to go out to respond to calls. The other option is to buy and man with CCG personal, anchor handling vessels that could do CCG NavAid and SAR work as well. Problem with that is no one wants to work with CCG anymore, pays sucks compared to industry when they actually manage to pay you. When LNGC kicks in they are going to suck up even more ticketed CCG personal as well.

An interesting article by Robert Allan:

'In conclusion, it is certainly feasible to consider a system of large rescue tugs to aid in the protection of the B.C. coastline,
but the economics of that operation are not trivial and the probability of an incident is very low.'

https://ral.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/BCSN-14-12-Coastal-Protection.pdf
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #257 on: Yesterday at 11:29:46 »
An interesting article by Robert Allan:

'In conclusion, it is certainly feasible to consider a system of large rescue tugs to aid in the protection of the B.C. coastline,
but the economics of that operation are not trivial and the probability of an incident is very low.'

https://ral.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/BCSN-14-12-Coastal-Protection.pdf

The article assumes the sole task of a tug would be towing.

Towing is just a *capability* of the vessels they've leased, and the same of any future vessels they buy to do the same job.

The vessels are and will be multi-tasked.

For anyone interested, the tender solicitation

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-MB-003-26699
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:35:14 by Not a Sig Op »

Offline Colin P

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #258 on: Yesterday at 11:51:01 »
No Robert is quite clear that any such vessel should be able to be multi-tasked, but with deep sea towing as the primary design consideration. So you give up some other capability, such as icebreaking or buoy stowage, fuel economy. Also you have to teach and practice open ocean towing. Robert told me (we have cabins on the same island) that the Gordon Reid/John Jacobson was supposed to be bigger and the CCG deleted larger towing gear to save money. 

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #259 on: Yesterday at 13:48:17 »
Is this something of the type envisioned?



Quote
NoCGV Harstad

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Name:   NoCGV Harstad
Namesake:   The town of Harstad
Builder:   Søviknes yard
Commissioned:   January 2005
In service:   2009[1]
Identification:   
IMO number: 9312107
MMSI number: 259050000
Callsign: JWBR
Pennant number: W318
Status:   Active

General characteristics
Class and type:   Offshore Patrol Vessel
Type:   Patrol and Oil recovery vessel
Displacement:   3,121 long tons (3,171 t)
Length:   270 ft (82 m)
Beam:   51 ft (16 m)
Depth:   6 m (20 ft)

Propulsion:   
Two Rolls-Royce Marine diesel engines, 4000kW each
Two screws; one azimuth thruster, 883kW
Speed:   18.4 knots (34.1 km/h; 21.2 mph)

Boats & landing
craft carried:   2 x MOB boats type NORSAFE

Complement:   26

Armament:   40 mm Bofors

Notes:   
Crane: 15m/5 tons
Modified to support the Nato Submarine Rescue System
NoCGV Harstad is a purpose-built offshore patrol vessel for the Norwegian Coast Guard. She is named after the city Harstad in Northern Norway. As of May 2018, the commanding officer is Lt. Cmdr. Kyrre Einarsen.[1]

Harstad was built as a multipurpose vessel, but optimised for emergency towing of large oil tankers (up to 200,000 tonnes deadweight (DWT)), oil spill clean-up and fire fighting. The most common duty will be fishery inspection and search and rescue in Norway's large exclusive economic zone. The steadily increasing traffic of large oil tankers along the Norwegian coast explains the need for this type of vessel.

The vessel is built of high-end design. Designer is Rolls-Royce Marine AS, Dept. Ship Technology - Offshore Type: UT 512



Or perhaps the Natural Gas powered Barentshav?

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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #260 on: Yesterday at 13:49:18 »
Got to work with the USNS on the tow home for the Protecteur (from HI to BC); their approach is quite different for what you would do for a standard tug around the harbour or a short distance, and it was a great learning experience to see professionals at work. After seeing the USNS Salvor though, can't really imagine anything not designed primarily for open ocean towing being able to do the job.

The wikipedia page is here; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Salvor

These guys are really impressive to see in action, and that winch is a big piece of kit. They are geared up for salvage/rescue, so also do diving and some other similar tasks, but would not want to do any kind of planned open ocean towing of a big ship without something of similar size and power.

I could see something like that being outfitted to be able to do some offshore work (environmental response? Basic SAR?) but tugs are built for bollard pull, not speed, so compromises to do other tasks can kill your primary role.

Given the desired uptick in vessel traffic they want to have with the pipeline port, would seem to be a reasonable precaution for those low likelihood/extreme impact risk scenarios with things running aground etc.


Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #261 on: Yesterday at 15:49:58 »
I could see something like that being outfitted to be able to do some offshore work (environmental response? Basic SAR?) but tugs are built for bollard pull, not speed, so compromises to do other tasks can kill your primary role.

Most of the Canadian Coast Guard vessels max out at 15-17kts, any off the shelf anchor handler design should be able to do the same.

With the exception of a lack of helicopter facilities (which really get less use than you might think), there's a lot of off-the-shelf OSV designs that are pretty well suited to most coast guard tasks.

Bollard pull aside, one of the big features an anchor handler (or off shore tug) has in terms of towing is constant tension winch.

You set the tension on the winch, and the drum will automatically pay-out/take up to maintain the constant tension.

Plus shark jaws and tow pins, a hydraulic system on deck for holding whatever you're towing while you're making or breaking connections on deck.

Oil recovery systems, fire fighting, and SAR are all usually part of any off the shelf design as well.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 15:54:08 by Not a Sig Op »

Offline Colin P

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #262 on: Yesterday at 16:11:36 »
For handling the bigger buoys you need a 10/5 ton crane with 2 hooks and a decent reach and swing area. Buoys are 9 tons and rocks are 3 tons.

here is my old ship hard at work, the chain drum is a east coast addition. The nice thing about this design is you have a good size hold to hold buoys, chains and anchors, along with other stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIgjcbOkoag

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #263 on: Yesterday at 22:19:42 »
Most of the Canadian Coast Guard vessels max out at 15-17kts, any off the shelf anchor handler design should be able to do the same.

With the exception of a lack of helicopter facilities (which really get less use than you might think), there's a lot of off-the-shelf OSV designs that are pretty well suited to most coast guard tasks.

Bollard pull aside, one of the big features an anchor handler (or off shore tug) has in terms of towing is constant tension winch.

You set the tension on the winch, and the drum will automatically pay-out/take up to maintain the constant tension.

Plus shark jaws and tow pins, a hydraulic system on deck for holding whatever you're towing while you're making or breaking connections on deck.

Oil recovery systems, fire fighting, and SAR are all usually part of any off the shelf design as well.

Thanks for the info; pretty interesting to hear what the CCG does.  Hadn't previously looked up the ETVs; bigger than what I thought they were.  Remember seeing those ships around St. John's but didn't realize they had been repurposed for this contract in BC.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Constructing the CCG Hero class [Merged]
« Reply #264 on: Yesterday at 23:12:26 »
Thanks for the info; pretty interesting to hear what the CCG does.  Hadn't previously looked up the ETVs; bigger than what I thought they were.  Remember seeing those ships around St. John's but didn't realize they had been repurposed for this contract in BC.

They're well suited for what they've been contracted to do, at least as an interim solution.

They'll be a bit heavy on fuel consumption though. If they were to buy or build something in the future, they'd be well suited to go with a diesel-electric or hybrid option.

It's part of the reason they were available on the market, oil companies are paying more attention to fuel bills.

Coincidentally, Maersk Cutter is one of the more fuel efficient vessels that replaced them...

http://tugfaxblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2016/01/maersk-cutter-finds-work.html?m=1

Maersk had also bid the Cutter for the ETV contract.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 23:37:54 by Not a Sig Op »