Jagmeet Singh, probably the biggest political loser?

[ArmyRick]

We have a Trudeau thread and a Pierre P Thread. I wanted to spark up a discussion about the political 4th pary here, Jagmeet Singh and the NDP.

Personally I think he had a chance to exploit success from Trudeau's plummeting in the polls and snatch a possibile third or maybe even opposition at the next election, However his "tough talk" and do the opposite actions shows complete political incompetence or someone with other political motives (cough, pension, cough)

Check out this lame duck interview. Vasey is trying to get some straight answers that need explaining and he waffles off garbage.

 

[ArmyRick]

I think if the NDP want any chance of forming a political party in the next election, they need to dump Singh and do it fast.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

He is very off brand for the NDP and I am honestly shocked he has survived this many leadership reviews.

Either there is something else in the background of the NDP we aren't privy to or the pool to replace him is thimble sized.

I don't see him making it past this next election, after which the damage is already done to his legacy, the NDP, and to Canada with his bogus Supply and Confidence scheme.

 

[Remius]

In his defense he has done more to advance and get results (the kind the NDP have in their platform)than any other NDP leader I think. But, that likely cost him his and the NDP’s soul to do it. Like the LPC, the NDP probably needs a fresh leader. The difference is that I can see a few candidates for the LPC leadership in the wings but I don’t see any yet for the NDP.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In his defense he has done more to advance and get results (the kind the NDP have in their platform)than any other NDP leader I think. But, that likely cost him his and the NDP’s soul to do it. Like the LPC, the NDP probably needs a fresh leader. The difference is that I can see a few candidates for the LPC leadership in the wings but I don’t see any yet for the NDP.

Ya he sold his sold to the Devil.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

In his defense he has done more to advance and get results (the kind the NDP have in their platform)than any other NDP leader I think. But, that likely cost him his and the NDP’s soul to do it.

You mean the LPC have advanced those initiatives, remember .

 

[ArmyRick]

In his defense he has done more to advance and get results (the kind the NDP have in their platform)than any other NDP leader I think. But, that likely cost him his and the NDP’s soul to do it. Like the LPC, the NDP probably needs a fresh leader. The difference is that I can see a few candidates for the LPC leadership in the wings but I don’t see any yet for the NDP.

What did he get? He ask for X and he gets like a small portion of it or a "lets discuss it further" from Trudeau.

In the supply and confidence agreement its all a one way deal that Trudeau is exploiting.

Tell me, what big victories has Jagmeet scored?

 

[Remius]

What did he get? He ask for X and he gets like a small portion of it or a "lets discuss it further" from Trudeau.

In the supply and confidence agreement its all a one way deal that Trudeau is exploiting.

Tell me, what big victories has Jagmeet scored?

Dental Care, National lunch program, pharmacare.

You’ve completely missed my point. I didn’t say he scored victories. You could call them pyrrhic victories if you’d like. I said he’s done more to advance NDP policy platforms than anyone else.

He’s sold the NDP soul for it because in exchange for those things, he keeps a minority LPC in power and the LPC is getting the credit.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Dental Care, National lunch program, pharmacare.

You’ve completely missed my point. I didn’t say he scored victories. You could call them pyrrhic victories if you’d like. I said he’s done more to advance NDP policy platforms than anyone else.

He’s sold the NDP soul for it because in exchange for those things, he keeps a minority LPC in power and the LPC is getting the credit.

I would also argue he's tainted his party with the stench of the current LPC.

 

[Remius]

I would also argue he's tainted his party with the stench of the current LPC.

Not sure I’d go that far. and I might even say the opposite , that LPC has been tainted by the NDP. But he’s now positioned them as the client/vassal state of the LPC.

Edit: but JS and JT are definitly linked at the hip despite protestations to the contrary.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I think there is more at play than an LPC/NDP dynamic. I suggest that the answer to the question of Jagmeet Singh goes to the heart of internal NDP politics and how various riding elections play out.

 

[brihard]

He came in third and yet managed to parlay the NDP position of kingmaker into what’s shaping up to be the most significant advancement of NDP policy interests in a generation. NDP could not hope to form government; despite that they’ve made significant advances in universal pharmacare and dental care.

I’ve never voted NDP in my life and can’t imagine that I ever will, but objectively I have to recognize a hand well played. Of the three party leaders, Singh has probably achieved the most of what he could have reasonably hoped for going in, at the least relative cost.

Few of us here have any time for the NDP, and I don’t think we’ll find anything close to a sympathetic voice for them on this page. But I also wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking the voices on this site come anything close to representing average mainstream views of Singh or his party. A ‘loser’ he certainly is not. He’s made very effective use of the NDP occupying arguably their most advantageous realistic political position.

 

[Halifax Tar]

He came in third and yet managed to parlay the NDP position of kingmaker into what’s shaping up to be the most significant advancement of NDP policy interests in a generation. NDP could not hope to form government; despite that they’ve made significant advances in universal pharmacare and dental care.

I’ve never voted NDP in my life and can’t imagine that I ever will, but objectively I have to recognize a hand well played. Of the three party leaders, Singh has probably achieved the most of what he could have reasonably hoped for going in, at the least relative cost.

Few of us here have any time for the NDP, and I don’t think we’ll find anything close to a sympathetic voice for them on this page. But I also wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking the voices on this site come anything close to representing average mainstream views of Singh or his party. A ‘loser’ he certainly is not. He’s made very effective use of the NDP occupying arguably their most advantageous realistic political position.

Not sure I’d go that far. and I might even say the opposite , that LPC has been tainted by the NDP. But he’s now positioned them as the client/vassal state of the LPC.

Edit: but JS and JT are definitly linked at the hip despite protestations to the contrary.

Solid points I never pondered. Perhaps you're right and the NDP was able to latch on to the LPC and pull them away from the centre, by means of the supply in confidence agreement.

Perhaps it is the LPC who are now tainted with the stench of Canada's little socialist party.

I have voted NDP, provincially and federally. My votes have been all over the map.

 

[brihard]

Solid points I never pondered. Perhaps you're right and the NDP was able to latch on to the LPC and pull them away from the centre, by means of the supply in confidence agreement.

Perhaps it is the LPC who are now tainted with the stench of Canada's little socialist party.

The LPC have been pulled from their more centrist roots. The NDP are just doing exactly what they’ve always tried to do and what their voters have always realistically wanted and expected. Few of the people upset at the NDP for the supply and confidence agreement would have ever voted NDP anyway, so it’s not like they’re losing votes with this strategy.

 

[ArmyRick]

He came in third and yet managed to parlay the NDP position of kingmaker into what’s shaping up to be the most significant advancement of NDP policy interests in a generation. NDP could not hope to form government; despite that they’ve made significant advances in universal pharmacare and dental care.

I’ve never voted NDP in my life and can’t imagine that I ever will, but objectively I have to recognize a hand well played. Of the three party leaders, Singh has probably achieved the most of what he could have reasonably hoped for going in, at the least relative cost.

Few of us here have any time for the NDP, and I don’t think we’ll find anything close to a sympathetic voice for them on this page. But I also wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking the voices on this site come anything close to representing average mainstream views of Singh or his party. A ‘loser’ he certainly is not. He’s made very effective use of the NDP occupying arguably their most advantageous realistic political position.

NDP 44 seats in 2015 election, down to 24 in 2019 and wow, up to 25 in 2021. Thats a HUGE Loser in my views.

I call him a grand loser because he had every opportunity to pass Trudeau in the last several months had he forced an election, it could have been a huge win.

You have noticed that parties get destroyed in some elctions? Its clownery like what Singh does that results in parties becoming irrelevant. and history. What gets him in big trouble is all the "The Liberals suck...talk" but then supports them...For peanuts

Dental Care, National lunch program, pharmacare.

Not really, just tiny fractions and so many caveats. Its all show and no go.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The LPC have been pulled from their more centrist roots. The NDP are just doing exactly what they’ve always tried to do and what their voters have always realistically wanted and expected. Few of the people upset at the NDP for the supply and confidence agreement would have ever voted NDP anyway, so it’s not like they’re losing votes with this strategy.

The more I think about it the more I think you and @Remius are likely correct.

 

[brihard]

NDP 44 seats in 2015 election, down to 24 in 2019 and wow, up to 25 in 2021. Thats a HUGE Loser in my views.

I call him a grand loser because he had every opportunity to pass Trudeau in the last several months had he forced an election, it could have been a huge win.

You have noticed that parties get destroyed in some elctions? Its clownery like what Singh does that results in parties becoming irrelevant. and history. What gets him in big trouble is all the "The Liberals suck...talk" but then supports them...For peanuts

Not really, just tiny fractions and so many caveats. Its all show and no go.

And yet with 60% of the seats he’s gotten far more done, if we take into account what will be put in place over the next year.

You equate victory only with winning the election, but for a perpetual third party it’s really about leveraging parliamentary politics to achieve policy objectives pleasing to their voters.

Could he have passed Trudeau? Yeah, maybe. And he’d be official opposition to a majority government holding naught but a limp dick in his hand. He has far more power to achieve strategic objectives as the kingmaker affording balance of power to a minority than he would be coming in second to a majority.

To be blunt I think you’re just mad that he won’t trigger an election and hand the Conservatives a relatively effortless majority. Explain to me like I’m five why it would make any sense at all for the NDP to weaken their position that way, and to lock that impotence in for four years?

 

[KevinB]

NDP 44 seats in 2015 election, down to 24 in 2019 and wow, up to 25 in 2021. Thats a HUGE Loser in my views.

I call him a grand loser because he had every opportunity to pass Trudeau in the last several months had he forced an election, it could have been a huge win.

You have noticed that parties get destroyed in some elctions? Its clownery like what Singh does that results in parties becoming irrelevant. and history. What gets him in big trouble is all the "The Liberals suck...talk" but then supports them...For peanuts

Not really, just tiny fractions and so many caveats. Its all show and no go.

I’m guessing the NDP don’t have the funds to push an election at this point in time. While he may get to be the Official Opposition, the idea of PP running Canada isn’t his end state.

 

[Rudburg]

I think there is more at play than an LPC/NDP dynamic. I suggest that the answer to the question of Jagmeet Singh goes to the heart of internal NDP politics and how various riding elections play out.

I think this an important factor. The NDP's traditional voting base is a mix of left-leaning rural voters, urban culture warriors, and union workers, and they are increasingly dominated by the urban voters.

I came across this a few days ago:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1784675751997874537

In summary, the NDP has lost a bunch of voters to the Conservatives, most likely from the rural areas and the unions. But they have also taken a large number of Liberal voters, probably in the urban Liberal strongholds.

Many of those rural voters are probably gone forever - the NDP's culture war stances are going to make it impossible to get them back. Frankly, the NDP seems to have given up on these ridings, and it might explain some of the decisions (Charlie Angus, etc) not to run in the next election.

A possibility is that the NDP might have concluded that their best strategy is to keep the Liberal government alive as long as they are continuing to bleed strength from them in these urban areas. The Liberals are only going to get more unpopular, and many of these urban voters will never swing to the conservatives. So they can try and set themselves up as the only viable alternative on the left. If they can take enough of those urban ridings, the NDP could position themselves to be the official opposition. They might also see a long-term opportunity to cripple the Liberals (who have no strongholds outside of the big cities) by stealing their last sources of strength.

 

[RangerRay]

I contend that the “policy wins” the NDP received were actually things the Liberals wanted to do anyways. I didn’t get the feeling that they were all that put out by pursuing them.

Going forward, if the NDP wants to be relevant and maybe even replace the Liberals, they should ignore the CPC and go after the Liberals from the left. If they continue to campaign against the evil Tories, they will be committing political malpractice, which is normal for them.

If the CPC looks “scary” to the left, and if the NDP don’t make the case why progressives shouldn’t vote Liberal, those progressive voters will vote Liberal.