Author Topic: Apaches  (Read 36658 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ex-Dragoon

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 46,467
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,002
  • dealing with life not that active here anymore
Re: Apaches
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2011, 07:00:10 »
i think that our 15 new very expensive CH-47F's Had better be very well escorted because inside thoes helicopters are our kids. I say that if we didn't get rid of the GST, just froze it and chaneled it into northern development and military spending we could afford what we needed.  Attack helicopters are essential, I'd rather not have to keep saying to other countries 'CAN WE BORROW, DO YOU HAVE, WE CAN'T AFFORD' the basics.  When it comes down to it if country A needs the capability that is theres and we need the same and dont have it we wait, Is that worth a life to save face in Ottawa?

The quiet was too good to be true....
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 76,274
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,291
Re: Apaches
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2011, 23:08:33 »
I am all for the procurement of more helicopters for the CF, especially ones of the offensive nature.  Understandably, their isn't a lot of political will power to procure something like an apache but heck if the air force can drop billions of dollars on the JSF... (An aircraft which I would argue we don't need at all/ not that we don't need new aircraft, but I believe money we be far better spent on something like the Eurofighter or something similar) why not by a sqn of apaches or tigers for escort and fire support.

I mean are we not trying to develop an air assault capability within the CF, especially with the procurement of the Chinooks and the re-invigoration of the light infantry.  The CF needs to get away from looking at choppers as simply just a transport platform and look at actually developing some basic tactics and structure to how they conduct helicopter ops i.e. aerial cbt team manoeuvres.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 23:27:41 by Stymiest »

Offline Thucydides

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 177,305
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,986
  • Freespeecher
Re: Apaches
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2011, 23:25:31 »
The government putting out a RFP and tenders for any sort of attack helicopter will certainly cause Stephen Staples and his fellow travelers to go into collective shock, so maybe there is something to that suggestion after all  >:D

There are some fairly low budget attack helos out there such as the Italian Agusta A129 Mangusta, MH-6 "Little Bird" or (real outlier) the Chinese WZ-10, but the real cost is always the trained manpower to operate the machines. Streamlining the headquarters will open up PYs for other things, but I doubt the number of PY's would match what we need now to fill in the gaps in existing organizations, much less entirely new organizations.

Still, as missions and needs evolve, so too will where and how we place resources. It may well be that attack helicopters might be supplemented by UAV or UCAV's, or their roles taken by other technologies (ground attack by aircraft coming in the weeds has been largely replaced by high altitude bombing using smart weapons, for example)
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: Apaches
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2011, 23:38:33 »
(ground attack by aircraft coming in the weeds has been largely replaced by high altitude bombing using smart weapons, for example)

Only because the operating environments lately have been permisive as far as the air situation is concerned.

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 157,180
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,552
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: Apaches
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2011, 00:08:06 »
The government putting out a RFP and tenders for any sort of attack helicopter will certainly cause Stephen Staples and his fellow travelers to go into collective shock, so maybe there is something to that suggestion after all  >:D
...


T, pun intended?   If so,  ;D

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 95,760
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,445
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Apaches
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2011, 17:17:58 »
Well considering our recent usage, one could likely get Mi-8AMTSh's to act in this role, and we could sell them to the public as dual use SAR helo's inbetween killings... :stirpot:

Offline FoverF

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 15,813
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 259
Re: Apaches
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2011, 22:10:24 »

T, pun intended?   If so,  ;D

I absolutely despise puns in all their forms. But this just about made my day.

Oh, and I'd rather see us get AORs, Javelins, HIMARS, a few extra C-17 and CC-150 airframes, a DDH replacement, F-35s, satellites, combat-capable submarines, more U(C)AVs, a fleet of P-8s (with maybe some airframes in a Wedgetail-type configuration), an LDP, maybe some Juan-Carlos I class ships, and while I'm dreaming I'd wish for some means of rudimentary ground-based air defence. Once we had all of that in place, then maybe some AH's. Like Tiger ARHs.

But let's be realistic. There's no way Canada could afford gear like this. It's impossible... *cough* AUSTRALIA *cough* excuse me.  Things like stealth fighters, AWACS, aircraft carriers, attack helos, and SAMs are outside the reach of middle powers like us.

*COUGH http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures *cough*, oh, gesundheit.

(Just to be fair, Australia doesn't have HIMARS. I could live with that.)
Plan B is just to keep on givin' er

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 294,125
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,645
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Apaches
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2011, 22:29:27 »