Author Topic: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF  (Read 372532 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« on: October 05, 2002, 14:31:00 »
Does anyone agree with me in that a soldier who falsely accuses another soldier of sexual harassment (and if obviously caught) should they themselves be charged and dishonourably discharged from the military?
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humint

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Re: Sexual Harassment.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2002, 15:06:00 »
Well, I agree that something should be done. May be not discharged, but severely reprimanded.

Offline Ditch

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Re: Sexual Harassment.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2002, 17:12:00 »
In fact, under the whole SHARP (or whatever they call it this week) policy, there is a clause for malicious/false claims.  If a claimant falsely accuses another of harassment, he/she can be charged. If it was simply a case of misunderstanding, then there are no problems.
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Offline bossi

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Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2001, 20:31:00 »
I saw a tiny bit of the Ombudsman's report on live TV today - not enough to be able to comment intelligently.
However, if this Toronto Star article is correct, then it is unfortunate that whomever destroyed the original letter will not be brought to justice (i.e. not only must justice be done, but it must be seen to be done).

Aug. 13, 02:00 EDT   
Report could tarnish military
Allan Thompson
OTTAWA BUREAU
OTTAWA - Canada's armed forces will likely get another black eye with today's release of a report by military Ombudsman André ?arin.

In 300 pages, the ombudsman reviews complaints by a communications officer who alleged he became subject to reprisal after accusing a senior officer of acting improperly.

Capt. Bruce Poulin was a speechwriter at army headquarters in 1996 when he wrote a memo to then deputy army commander, Maj.-Gen. Bill Leach, saying he saw another officer harass a female officer.

The officer Poulin accused of wrongdoing was Col. Serge Labb鬠who led the ill-fated 1993 Canadian Airborne Regiment mission to Somalia. On that mission, one Somali was mysteriously shot dead, another was tortured and killed and a coverup alleged. An investigation took place and the regiment was disbanded.

Poulin alleged Labbé ¨ad sexually harassed a waitress at a mess in the military college Labbé £ommanded that Poulin attended.

Eventually, military police cleared Labbé ¯f the allegations and dismissed the claim Leach had failed to properly investigate the charges initially.

Leach has since retired from the forces. Labbé £ontinues to serve.

In a July, 1996, memo - which Leach later said he never saw - Poulin said he saw Labbé ­aking unwanted sexual advances toward the young woman in the college mess.

Poulin says he hand-delivered his 1996 memo to Leach. Excerpts from Poulin's diary, later given to military police, suggest he also told then chief of defence Maurice Baril.

No probe was launched until Poulin's memo was leaked to the media in 1998. By then, Leach was a lieutenant-general and the army commander.

Military police then probed the allegations against Labbé®Â They separately investigated whether Leach mishandled the investigation but apparently waited several months before seeking a copy of Poulin's memo, which mysteriously disappeared.

Poulin was accused of leaking information to the media. In a news release, he said he found himself ``alone and isolated'' after his allegations became public. ``I had dared to question the behaviour of the `best colonel in the army' . . .'' he said.

Military documents already made public revealed several people recalled talking to Leach about Poulin's memo or remembered seeing the document in his office - though Leach said he had not read it.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2004, 20:52:47 by Bruce Monkhouse »
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Those who appreciate true valour should in their daily intercourse set gentleness first and aim to win the love and esteem of others. If you affect valour and act with violence, the world will in the end detest you and look upon you as wild beasts. Of this you should take heed.
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Offline RCA

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Re: If somebody lied or covered up, shouldn‘t they be charged?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2001, 22:23:00 »
and the beat goes on

ethics my ***

Master Blaster, you called it.
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the patriot

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Re: If somebody lied or covered up, shouldn‘t they be charged?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2001, 21:19:00 »
Um, one count of Conduct Unbecoming of a Canadian Forces Member. Anyone, anyone?! I second, and third that motion (this isn‘t being given Royal Assent is it?!). :(

-the patriot- :cdn:

rcrman

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Re: If somebody lied or covered up, shouldn‘t they be charged?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2001, 10:21:00 »
I smell B***S***! Something stinks and I am glad that the Ombudsman is now finding that out. Get the Frebreze going in the halls of NDHQ, crack some windows open...get that smell out of there for once and for all!!! Man yet again...coverups and "sweeping under of rugs". Hasn‘t the public heard enough of this crap? And we wonder why their isn‘t proper funding or public interest in the military these days. "Yes please, I‘ll take two black eyes once again...just like 1994/95 era"
I say air out these problems...and charge these top brass d***s who do absolutely nothing except advance their careers! Maybe some of these Generals who seem to have "horse-blinders" on while in key positions, while dealing with problems should look at their "Principles of Leadership" Cards and their Commission Officer Scrolls now and then!! Man that pisses me off! And hell yes everyone who signs the dotted line should/is accountable under QR&O and NDA, Code of Service Discipline, etc...Does Leach, like others have SELECTIVE AMNESIA???????? Does anyone know? Maybe it‘s just me?
 :skull: skull: :skull: skull: :fifty:

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Grubby ]

Offline PMedMoe

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Reservist found NOT GUILTY of rape charge
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2008, 08:14:25 »
An Edmonton reserve unit soldier convicted of raping a female recruit at a party following a basic training course was sentenced to three years in prison yesterday.

After Master Cpl. Orman Boyd Savage, 38, was handcuffed in court and led away by sheriffs, the victim of the 2004 assault said she can now finally get on with her life.

Article Link

« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 14:55:23 by Michael O'Leary »
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Offline geo

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2008, 08:43:40 »
Well, he was found guilty by a jury of his peers...
Three years in the can
Good riddance to bad rubbish!  We don't need people who can't keep their dick under control
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Offline GUNS

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2008, 08:56:43 »
Geo,
1+ to your comment.

What I don't understand is that DND failed to respond to the lady's statement that, this is a on going problem within the CF and its "hushed up".
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When I do wrong, no one forgets.

Offline c_canuk

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2008, 09:03:41 »
maybe they did, but the media decided not to publish it...

as someone who has instructed on BMQ/SQ in the past the idea that an instructor could take advantage of their power over the students like this sickens me.

If he did it, he should have gotten a lot more than 3 years.

I do wonder why it took over 3 years for this to be concluded. That seems like a long time to me.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline geo

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2008, 09:07:41 »
WRT ongoing problem & hushed-up allegations...

Am certain that this lady felt that she couldn't be the only one to have ever been assaulted in same said manner.... you mix young men with young women, throw in some booze & let the hormones take over... put it on auto-pilot and VOILA!

Does consentual sex happen within the military... you betcha...
However, once a relationship turns sour, does the consentual sex remain consentual?

WRT the "hushed up"... it is common practice to advise complainant AND accused not to talk (gossip) to anyone about the incident - in order to make the investigator's work easier.  Allowing him the chance to find untainted witnesses.  If no one other than the investigator is talking about it - is it being hushed up?.... NO!
Chimo!

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2008, 09:08:18 »
as someone who has instructed on BMQ/SQ in the past the idea that an instructor could take advantage of their power over the students like this sickens me.

As you see on the Military Court Martial website, people are often charged with "S. 95 NDA, ill-treated a person who by reason of rank was subordinate to him." which, I believe, includes sexual assault.

I do wonder why it took over 3 years for this to be concluded. That seems like a long time to me.

Probably took that long for the investigation.
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2008, 09:13:28 »
However, once a relationship turns sour, does the consentual sex remain consentual?

I think it may be unfair to the victim to assume this was a relationship that had gone sour.  This guy was married. (Yes, I know, it happens) Good thing it's not the U.S. Military as they can be charged for adultery.
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Offline geo

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2008, 09:33:00 »
Don't get me wrong... am not saying or insinuating that, in this case, this MCpl was fraternising to the point of having developed a relationship - but I have seen a couple of incidents in this area (LFQA) where it has happened.
Chimo!

Offline Pencil Tech

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2008, 16:08:55 »
Wow, I had that guy as an instructor on a Dvr Whl course a few years ago.  :o

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2008, 16:36:04 »
Good riddance...
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Offline scoutfinch

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2008, 17:13:15 »
Don't get me wrong... am not saying or insinuating that, in this case, this MCpl was fraternising to the point of having developed a relationship - but I have seen a couple of incidents in this area (LFQA) where it has happened.

Funny... Similar incidents have occurred in the past and sometimes the women have chosen not to complain to police. Does that have any impact on this particular case?  I don't think so.  Nor does your point.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing ~ Edmund Burke

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2008, 20:05:21 »
As you see on the Military Court Martial website, people are often charged with "S. 95 NDA, ill-treated a person who by reason of rank was subordinate to him." which, I believe, includes sexual assault.

Probably took that long for the investigation.

No it's not inclusive of the charge ... witness this link:

McDougall 27 Nov 2007

Click on the hyperlink to the charge sheet et voila:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/cmj/chargesheets/mcdougall.pdf

What irks me is the MSM and people once again saying crap like this is covered up, yet here we are posting links to publicly available information. This is really starting to piss me off.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 20:08:38 by ArmyVern »
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2008, 20:11:03 »
I should have said the other charge (often) accompanies sexual assault when it's done by a person of higher rank to a person of lower rank.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2008, 20:21:44 »
I should have said the other charge (often) accompanies sexual assault when it's done by a person of higher rank to a person of lower rank.


Seen.  :)
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

Offline eaduff

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2008, 21:18:21 »
Oddly enough this has been happening for a long time and its not just military specific.  It's not necessarily covered up but some times the accused manages to use their rank and position and knowledge of the system to escape the charge. Just doesn't seem fair.  For people in positions of authority to use that authority in order to get sex or anything else illegal or immoral is just.......  well its just f#$$^% sick.  Some people mistake a friendly outgoing attitude as some how sexual and seek to take advantage of it.  Nothing that a well placed knee or a good solid rear naked choke wouldn't solve.

No means No and that isn't just for male on female, because even though it is mainly male on female, there is also female on male, female on female and male on male.  Chances are you won't hear about those though.

 

Offline geo

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2008, 08:47:58 »
eaduff...

As I stated earlier, the CF has a "zero tolerance" policy and the moment superiors find out about it, the juggernaut starts moving: slow & deliberate. 

This requires that the victim comes out and speaks out - either on his/her own or with the help of a friend/comrade.  If a situation persiste, because the victim is intimidated or in spite of being known by the the comrades, then the comrade is contributing to the victimization of the victim AND the comrade is no better than the driver who carries on past the scene of an accident where help MUST be tendered.
Chimo!

Offline Soldiergirl

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2008, 09:35:52 »
I've got to say that I find this kinda disturbing. As someone that is in the process of joining the CF. I've heard many stories of this happening. How are you to make sure you're safe in situations like these???

Offline geo

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Re: Reservist sentenced for raping recruit
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2008, 09:41:59 »
soldiergirl...
The CF is no more dangerous than things are on cviy street.

1.  Instructors and Leaders have received very specific directives on NOT fraternizing with their subordinates.  It should not happen.
2.  Zero tolerance - they do something, they will be reported, they will be dealt with - with all the powers the law can throw at them.
3.  Just say NO!  If you are in a situation where you feel uncomfortable - just say so!
4.  If something is done & you witness it.... report it!

Members of the CF are not animals....  the CF IS safe!

If you suddenly believe / are convinced that you are at risk.... then possibly - the CF isn't the place for you to be.....

Chimo!