Author Topic: Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)  (Read 147051 times)

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Offline Yrys

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2006, 09:50:52 »
Is she clueless?


Quote
Sgt. Monique Beauchamp, a spokeswoman for the RCMP, said the force works in partnership with Ottawa police and the various government agencies who organize Canada Day to patrol the festivities, but there are no specific measures to protect the war memorial.

"I wish we could be everywhere and take care of every single incident, but the important part is to make sure people have a safe place to enjoy the fireworks and then be on their way home safely," she said.

Seem to me that specific measure ARE needed at least on Canada day!
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Offline Hot Lips

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2006, 09:58:08 »
Tears well up in my eyes when I read these things and my heart sinks in my chest.
Today's youth has little repsect for anyone or anything...and IMO it starts at home...

My grandfathers would be rolling in their graves  :rage:

+1 George to electrifying it

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Offline EX_RCAC_011

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2006, 10:09:24 »
Is she clueless?


Seem to me that specific measure ARE needed at least on Canada day!

Although I do agree someone should have been watching the tomb,I do understand what she is saying.They were there to make sure everything was safe.With the terrorist threat,drunken idiot's fighting etc I'm sure they had their hands full.

But really what are the solutions that they could implement.It seems every couple holidays this place is targeted by idiots such as in the article.Remember the graffiti a few years back?

I personally think it could fall into the GGFG's hands full time or a rotating duty through 2 CMBG.Stay at the laurier and do shifts at the tomb....sounds like a good go to me.

I'm really interested in what comes of this and how bad he will get charged.Public indecency for sure,hopefully see some extra charges added.All he had to do was go to the rideau center...but I guess that 37 second walk just wasn't a possibility.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2006, 10:15:04 »
Right across the street, facing the NAC, is a park and lots of bushes........then of course the Rideau Canal, in which to wash up after (or during) the act.....
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Offline paracowboy

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2006, 10:22:22 »
Quote
I personally think it could fall into the GGFG's hands full time or a rotating duty through 2 CMBG.
I like this, too. Troops could be put on TD or something. I'm sure that the Reserves could use the work, and it gives the CF a higher profile, as well as giving Ottawa another tourist attraction.

They'd need some ROEs, though, and LEO coordination, I'd think.
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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2006, 10:23:48 »
Despicable,

And they have the gall to celebrate Canada Day,

They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old:

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning

We will remember them.


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Offline EX_RCAC_011

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2006, 10:32:20 »
I like this, too. Troops could be put on TD or something. I'm sure that the Reserves could use the work, and it gives the CF a higher profile, as well as giving Ottawa another tourist attraction.

They'd need some ROEs, though, and LEO coordination, I'd think.

I would think most people would respect the fact that there is a soldier standing there with a c-7 bayonet mounted.But for the few that didn't they should be allowed the power of arrest,soft tissue stuff.

Or better yet two ceremonial guard on each side from the army and a RCMP in full dress uniform.That takes care of all the legal ROE problems which would arise in soldiers in the city of Ottawa.
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Offline Nerf herder

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2006, 10:33:25 »
They'd need some ROEs, though, and LEO coordination, I'd think.

Ya want ROEs?

How about this:

1. Pers caught desicrating the tomb or site gets a throat punch.

2. When in doubt see ROE 1.

3. When ROE #1 is completed, throw them into a patrol car and throw the book at them.


Scumbags....I hope someone knows this arsehole and does the right thing and reports him to the RCMP in Ottawa.

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Online Infanteer

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2006, 10:44:03 »
The US never would have such a problem as there is a guard mounted on the tomb at all times.  Considering we pay for Skyhawks and Snowbirds, I don't see how a permanent guard could be considered a waste....

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Offline EX_RCAC_011

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2006, 10:54:47 »
The US never would have such a problem as there is a guard mounted on the tomb at all times.  Considering we pay for Skyhawks and Snowbirds, I don't see how a permanent guard could be considered a waste....


Excellent point,and an excellent argument.That would be a post any soldier would be honored to do.My point would be to put a Mountie on it along with the military for special occasions.

With all the funerals our country now has,our ceremonial drill which seemed to be lacking prior is now coming back in public view.As infanteer pointed out the Americans have troops posted to these positions.Maybe DND should start looking at dedicated drill and ceremonial teams for tasks such as this.Hence why I thought GGFG would be the key in.
(by the way excellent drill on Canada day,you guys looked real sharp).
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Offline Mr.Newf

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2006, 10:58:36 »
Heck, I would be a guard there for no charge, just so this despicable thing don't happen again. This clueless fellow would probally not be here if it wasn't for those brave men and women who gave their lives so we could live, not p*** all over their memorials.
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Offline Teddy Ruxpin

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2006, 11:11:41 »
For once, the media has done the right thing and I take some comfort in the fact that this assh*le's photo is on the front page of the Citizen, beneath a banner headline reading "A National Disgrace".

Have a look at the "Sound Off" comments at the bottom of the web page; many others feel as we do here.
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Offline LCIS-Tech

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2006, 11:38:27 »
Someone should have grabbed that punk by the scruff of the neck and made him lick the monument clean....

Offline GO!!!

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2006, 11:43:19 »
I would not guard the Memorial with ceremonial guard, especially having borne witness to the gong show that exists at the governor generals residence, where the GGFGs require guarding themselves to prevent tourists from touching them and their weapons.

Make the guard a platoon of Cbt Arms troops in Cadpat, perhaps with an identifying armband. With a shift rotation, you could have 3-4 on duty 24hrs a day. Goodwill ambassadors and question answerers by day, idiot stomping ****kickers by night. I'd volunteer!

I echo the sentiment to the effect of how we spend far more on other things - like sending troops to do ceremonial guard at Buckingham palace, and hundred - man honor guards for generals - while leaving the War Memorial undefended.
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Offline paracowboy

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2006, 11:53:20 »
I would not guard the Memorial with ceremonial guard, especially having borne witness to the gong show that exists at the governor generals residence, where the GGFGs require guarding themselves to prevent tourists from touching them and their weapons.
hence the ROEs. not ceremonial duties, these troops would be sentries.

Quote
Make the guard a platoon of Cbt Arms troops in Cadpat, perhaps with an identifying armband. With a shift rotation, you could have 3-4 on duty 24hrs a day. Goodwill ambassadors and question answerers by day, idiot stomping ****kickers by night. I'd volunteer!
which is why I suggest the GGFG. Their Armoury is right down the street.
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2006, 11:53:54 »
All the pictures taken that night should be printed in every paper, and shown on every news broadcast coast to coast to coast.  And that little spermburp needs a Lee-Enfield sword bayonet right up the chitlins.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline Teddy Ruxpin

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2006, 11:59:57 »
At the risk of ruining a good rant, and taking this off on a tangent:

Quote
hence the ROEs. not ceremonial duties, these troops would be sentries.

Unfortunately, you're in to Aid to the Civil Power-type stuff here.  Legally, we couldn't actually mount a "real" guard (one with powers of arrest, ROE, etc.) without jumping through all sorts of legal hoops and constitutional issues.  That's why it's the Ceremonial Guard.

We could mount a 24/7 "ceremonial" guard that just happened to have weapons and bayonets fixed...but I find that a bit American/Russian for my taste.

The Ottawa Police need to step up to the plate here, along with the RCMP; security is their responsibility and they need to be taking it seriously.
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn.

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Offline EX_RCAC_011

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2006, 12:08:03 »
I would not guard the Memorial with ceremonial guard, especially having borne witness to the gong show that exists at the governor generals residence, where the GGFGs require guarding themselves to prevent tourists from touching them and their weapons.

Make the guard a platoon of Cbt Arms troops in Cadpat, perhaps with an identifying armband. With a shift rotation, you could have 3-4 on duty 24hrs a day. Goodwill ambassadors and question answerers by day, idiot stomping ****kickers by night. I'd volunteer!

I echo the sentiment to the effect of how we spend far more on other things - like sending troops to do ceremonial guard at Buckingham palace, and hundred - man honor guards for generals - while leaving the War Memorial undefended.

yep although that would rock I can see the next headline in the Ottawa citizen  "HARPERS SS BEAT DOWN LOCAL TEENS."
As teddy said too much paper law crap to implement a Guard in down town Ottawa.

GGHG should be enough of a deterrant.
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2006, 12:08:38 »
Easy. Designate the area as DND property, post "trespassers will be violated" signs around it, and call it an indefinite BDF exercise. Voila! Conditions met .  ;D
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline IrishCanuck

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2006, 12:08:56 »
That's just awful... someone deserves a beat down.

The only way you will have effective deterrence is if their is in fact a "ceremonial guard".

There is too much space to cover in Ottawa for their to be a dedicated Ottawa police officer or RCMP officer at the memorial at all times. It simply won't happen. ( At least for longer than a temporary length anyway)

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Offline paracowboy

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2006, 12:12:48 »
you're in to Aid to the Civil Power-type stuff here.  Legally, we couldn't actually mount a "real" guard (one with powers of arrest, ROE, etc.) without jumping through all sorts of legal hoops and constitutional issues.  That's why it's the Ceremonial Guard.
hence the coordination I spoke of earlier. Legally, there has to be some precedent somewhere. And, if not, then we work with the system to produce one.

Quote
We could mount a 24/7 "ceremonial" guard that just happened to have weapons and bayonets fixed...but I find that a bit American/Russian for my taste.
and if we don't have all "t"s crossed, and "i"s dotted, we have a legal/media/political nightmare. If Pte Troopie even lays a finger on John Q. Civvie-scumbag, then we have assault.

Quote
The Ottawa Police need to step up to the plate here, along with the RCMP; security is their responsibility and they need to be taking it seriously.
they're busy trying to catch murderers, drug dealers, drunk drivers, and such. They have enough on their plate.
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Offline Gunner

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2006, 12:20:30 »
Easy. Designate the area as DND property, post "trespassers will be violated" signs around it, and call it an indefinite BDF exercise. Voila! Conditions met .  ;D

Kat, this would work (designating the National War Memorial as a DND property) under current legislation, no requirement for aid to lawful authority activities.

While I find this behavious disgusting, I am not yet ready to agree to a 24/7 military presence for all the reasons we discussed in the previous tomb of the unknown soldier thread.  Maybe we should be looking for retired cbt arms NCOs/WOs to form something similar to the UK's "Beefeaters" at the Tower of London.  Part Security/part tour guide.
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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2006, 12:24:24 »
I'm at the monument quite often. Its just a nice place to go and sit and people watch, have a sandwich, and enjoy the sun. Tourists are actually pleased to be able to approach and touch the tomb. It gives the monument a 'tangible' aspect that adds to the aura of the site. If you were there on Canada day you would have see the tomb covered with little paper Canada flags and it actually brought a tear to my eye. Somebody said there should be security there at least on Canada day, and there was. Three commissionaires were there. If there was to be security it should be off to the side and not directly on the monument platforms as this would deter people from getting close to the tomb and the monument itself and enjoying it fully. Trust me the vast 99.9999% of people respect the tomb. I even remember overhearing one dad tell his kids that they should never forget that they have the life they have today because people like the unknown soldier fought and died for their country. Now imagine the difference in impact that would have if your dad didn't say it two feet from the tomb.

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Offline GO!!!

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2006, 12:38:36 »
After looking at that picture a little more closely, a few things became apparent.

1) Very short hair
2) Maroon shirt with yellow, unidentifiable crest on left breast
3) Short facial hair (perhaps indicating recently having gone on leave)

Maybe we are looking a little far away for a culprit here, when the problem could very well be closer to home.

It would be a disgrace indeed if this idiot is a member.
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Offline Mr.Newf

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Re: National War Memorial Desecrated
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2006, 12:55:15 »
there is another thing that you all should notice, there seems to be two "spouts." If you look closely to the puddle there, you can see the other, indicating two people.
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