Author Topic: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)  (Read 81851 times)

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Offline Rheostatic

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #175 on: February 16, 2016, 12:41:47 »
There is no allowance for class A members on ED&T for parental purposes, though they are eligible for EI.
I expected as much; thanks for confirming.
I believe there are also provisions for pension buy-back under part I.1 or part I of the CFSA (whichever one the person belongs to).
I haven't seen this in any of the parental leave policies I've read so far. Where can I find out more about this?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #176 on: February 16, 2016, 12:53:04 »
For Part I.1 (the Reserve pension), see the Reserve Force Pension Plan Regulations (http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2007-32/FullText.html) for the definition of earnings:

2b  a member who is exempted from training and duty under article 9.09 or 9.10 or was granted leave for maternity or parental purposes under article 16.26 or 16.27 of the Queen’s Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces is deemed to be in receipt of earnings, during each week for which the member is exempted or granted leave, equal to the weekly rate of pay calculated in accordance with instruction 205.461 of the Compensation and Benefits Instructions for the Canadian Forces established under section 35 of the National Defence Act;

and

For Part I (Reg F pension), see the Canadian Forces Superannuation Regulations (http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._396/FullText.html):

3(1) Days of Canadian Forces service are
(a) in the regular force, days of service for which pay was authorized to be paid and days of leave for maternity or parental purposes granted under the Queen’s Regulations and Orders for the Canadian Forces; and
...
(b) in the reserve force,
...
(ii) in the proportion determined under subsection (3), days in a period of exemption or leave referred to in paragraph 2(b) of the Reserve Force Pension Plan Regulations, and

See also S11, Service Without Pay, which goes into greater detail.

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Offline Rheostatic

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #177 on: February 16, 2016, 14:29:24 »
Thanks for that.

Any insight on my first question? Can a class A reserve member be ED&T for a period of time, and then still be eligible to be ED&T For Parental Purposes (parental leave) later in the same year?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #178 on: February 16, 2016, 15:35:39 »
Nothing I see says you can't.  Local units have been known to deviate from the rules...
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Offline jedib0p

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #179 on: March 06, 2016, 21:29:27 »
Does anyone know if the intent of the updated QR&O 16.14 is intended to affect the annual leave reduction during parental leave?

Previous to the update a members annual leave entitlement was reduced by 2 days per month. The new QR&O language could imply 3 annual days are forfeited for the first month and 2 for every month after while on parental.

QR&O 16.14 and the CF Leave Policy Manual were both amended 1 Apr 2015. The manual still has language that supports the leave reduction policy.

16.14 - ANNUAL LEAVE

(4) Subject to paragraph (7), an officer or non-commissioned member of the Regular Force is entitled to annual leave equivalent to

- in respect of each fiscal year, other than one in which they are enrolled in or transferred to the Regular Force or cease to serve in the Regular Force,

- if they have not completed five years of service, two working days for each month of paid service during that fiscal year, to a maximum of 20 working days,
- if they have completed at least five years but less than 28 years of service, two working days for each of the first 11 months of paid service during that fiscal year, and three working days for the 12th such month, to a maximum of 25 working days, and

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #180 on: March 06, 2016, 21:56:27 »
You gain an entitlement to the 25th annual leave day in March. If you pulled pin on 28 Feb, but had spent 25 annual already, you'd owe the Crown 3 annual days when they do the leave audit.

If you went on parental in December, you'd not be entitled to those 3 days in March, because you're on MATA/PATA. Did you somehow think you'd only forfeit 24 annual days, even though your entitlement is 25? I'm sure if you came back to work (completed the 12 months) before end Feb, you'd get those 3 days in March, so its fair for everyone.

Offline jedib0p

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #181 on: March 06, 2016, 22:07:39 »
From the CF Leave Policy Manual:

Effective 1 November 2008, annual leave shall be reduced at the following rates, for each complete calendar month of non-paid service granted or imposed in a fiscal year:
a. for members entitled to 20 or 25 days annual leave at the time when the member commences non-paid service – two days for each complete calendar month of non-paid service; or

Example. Member takes parental from mid June - mid September. Member would forfeit 4 days of annual leave entitlement (2 for July and 2 for August) giving him 21 annual days for the year.

Using the new QR&O language that member would only be entitled to 10 months of leave entitlement at 2 days per month for each month on payroll (at least partially). Only 20 annual days for the year.

Online Strike

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #182 on: March 06, 2016, 23:21:45 »
So, here's one for you.  I burned off all my leave anticipating starting MATA/PATA at the end of March.  But now going in for a c-section for Wednesday.

Do I now owe days back?  And, if so, how many?
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Online Ostrozac

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #183 on: March 06, 2016, 23:31:35 »
So, here's one for you.  I burned off all my leave anticipating starting MATA/PATA at the end of March.  But now going in for a c-section for Wednesday.

Do I now owe days back?  And, if so, how many?

You look good to me -- as long as you've served one day in March (and you already have) you get the leave for the month of March. You get annual leave for each month or partial month you serve.

Online Old Sweat

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #184 on: March 06, 2016, 23:55:52 »
So, here's one for you.  I burned off all my leave anticipating starting MATA/PATA at the end of March.  But now going in for a c-section for Wednesday.

Do I now owe days back?  And, if so, how many?

Good luck, Strike. Looking forward to hearing how you and yours make out!  :salute:

Offline Rheostatic

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #185 on: April 22, 2016, 15:49:53 »
There is no allowance for class A members on ED&T for parental purposes, though they are eligible for EI.
Forgive me; I've read through CBI 205.461 - Maternity and Parental Allowances over and over again, but I still don't see where it excludes Class A members from PATA. 

I certainly would not be surprised if you're correct, and I wouldn't expect the PATA for a Class A member to be large, but I also wouldn't want to miss out on a benefit because I misinterpreted the rules.

So which part of the rules (i.e. which para in CBI 205.461) exclude Class A from PATA? Again I have conflicting advice from my organization, one agrees with dapaterson; the other insists that class A members can collect a small PATA allowance. Any advice is appreciated.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #186 on: April 22, 2016, 16:04:01 »
Paragraph (3)c requires your eligibility under EI or the QPIP to be solely based on military income.
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Offline Rheostatic

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #187 on: April 26, 2016, 12:20:09 »
I see. So Class A is not explicitly excluded, but a Class A member who is eligible for EI based on some other, civilian employment would not be eligible for PATA.

Class A members do pay EI premiums though, and I'm sure some Class A members would meet the EI eligibility criteria of 600 hours worked in the previous 52 weeks. I can see how the section you quoted would exclude some, but not all Class A members from collecting a parental allowance. Thanks for your answer.

Offline Rheostatic

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #188 on: April 28, 2016, 16:55:42 »
For future reference, MHRRP Chapter 17 offers some clarification on maternity/parental allowance for Class A members.

Offline CdnInfanteer

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MATA/PATA top up after going full-time army from a full-time civi job
« Reply #189 on: June 29, 2016, 19:09:49 »
Hi,

My wife is military. She was a part-time reservist and start full-time late last year. We had a child together in April. Prior to being full-time in the army last fall, she was full-time working for the BC Provincial government and doing some Class A on the side. The military tops up to 93% but we were a bit surprised when we found out that was only going to be around $5,000 dollars. She earned around $60,000 in the preceding 12 months with about $33,000 in the Army, most of that after she started working full-time. They calculated 93% of the $33,000 which was around $31,000. Fine, but then they took off around $25,000 because that was EI. She would be qualified to get EI from her other civi job that she had worked previously so should the army be taking that off they're top off?

Does anybody else have experience with this either going Class B or RegF less than 12 months prior to going on Mata or Pata after working full-time in the civilian world?

Thanks!

Offline dapaterson

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #190 on: June 29, 2016, 19:17:37 »
Rules for MATA/PATA are well spelled out in the CBIs.  You get EI, and the military tops you up based on a formula that's spelled out in regulations.  For Reservists, the top up is based on your military earnings in the past 12 months - other income is not included.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-205-officer-ncm-allowance-rates.page

205.461(8) (Weekly rate of pay) For the purpose of paragraphs (6) and (7), the weekly rate of pay:

for a member of the Regular Force, is seven-thirtieths of the monthly rate of pay; or
for a member of the Reserve Force, is based on the number of paid days served on Class A, B and C Reserve Service and Regular Force service in the 364-day period immediately prior to commencing maternity leave or parental leave, calculated as follows:
[Total paid days on Class A Reserve Service] × [Current rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class A Reserve Service]
+
[Total paid days on Class B Reserve Service] × [Current rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class B Reserve Service]
+
[Total paid days on Class C Reserve Service] × [Current monthly rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Class C Reserve Service divided by 30]
+
[Total paid days on Regular Force service] × [Current monthly rate of pay for the last rank and applicable incentive pay category achieved on Regular Force service divided by 30]
× 7
÷ The lesser of 364 days or the number of days during the period beginning on the day of enrolment and ending on the day before commencing maternity or paternal leave.

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Offline RubberTree

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #191 on: September 11, 2016, 13:59:49 »
Hello all,
MATA/PATA question regarding IMR and Extended parental benefits:
The gov't website states: "To provide more flexibility for Canadian Forces members, the EI parental benefit eligibility period can be extended up to a maximum of 104 weeks." (http://www.esdc.gc.ca/en/ei/military_families.page)

Is this 104 weeks until MATA/PATA must commence or 104 weeks before all benefits cease?
I appreciate any thoughts on the matter.
Thanks
RT

Offline Nuggs

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #192 on: September 11, 2016, 17:43:20 »
Unless I'm mistaken it's until all benefits cease. Aka you could taken 15 months after the birth for 9 months. The benefits cease after 2 years vs the civilian 52 weeks

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #193 on: October 14, 2016, 11:25:29 »
Hi all
RegF lady here

Planning to start mata/pata in January, and my TOS end in June. Ideally I'd like to take my leave until the end of my contract, and opt to not be topped up by the military, so that I am not required to pay the leave back in "working days". They're clear that the allowance must be paid back in days, but is it even possible to not opt for the allowance in the first place? From what I've read it seems like this could work, although it is not specifically stated. It also looks like the eligibility for the leave and the allowances go hand in hand, although I would be more than happy with just the leave and they can keep the allowance!
Meeting with my mata/pata clerk next week, just want to walk in there prepared and with realistic expectations.
Does anyone have experience with a situation like this?

Offline Rheostatic

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #194 on: October 16, 2016, 16:33:23 »
Hi all
RegF lady here

Planning to start mata/pata in January, and my TOS end in June. Ideally I'd like to take my leave until the end of my contract, and opt to not be topped up by the military, so that I am not required to pay the leave back in "working days". They're clear that the allowance must be paid back in days, but is it even possible to not opt for the allowance in the first place? From what I've read it seems like this could work, although it is not specifically stated. It also looks like the eligibility for the leave and the allowances go hand in hand, although I would be more than happy with just the leave and they can keep the allowance!
Meeting with my mata/pata clerk next week, just want to walk in there prepared and with realistic expectations.
Does anyone have experience with a situation like this?
Yes. There are separate eligibility criteria for leave and for the allowance, so it follows that some people would have to take leave without the allowance. The form (DND 2268) has an area where you will indicate whether you want the allowance.
(Not a clerk, just a guy who took parental leave recently.)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 11:08:40 by Rheostatic »

Offline Brihard

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #195 on: January 20, 2017, 17:43:04 »
Got a question, I'm helping do a bit of research for someone.

Background
- Member is pregnant and on LWOR pregnancy  will be LWOP MATA once the baby arrives.
- Member returns to duty in the fall.
- Member is a private, due for a normal 'on time' promotion to Cpl shortly.
- Member had inquired about but did not receive early promotion.
- It is understood that promotion should not normally happen til member returns to duty, as no military function is being carried out.

Situation
- If the member were to have been promoted in February, she believes she would get a PER for FY16-17.
- As a result of not getting a 16-17 PER, she believes she will be at a disadvantage, essentially set back a year for when she will begin to be merit listed as a Cpl, with the corresponding advancement towards PLQ, MCpl, etc.
- Net result is that had she not become pregnant, she would be a year ahead in terms of being considered for career advancement. Ipso facto, there's an argument to potentially be made that there is some discrimination based on pregnancy.

Question: Is there any resource based in policy or adjudicative decisions that would allow this member to avoid or mitigate this potential one year career setback due to pregnancy / MATA leave?

I don't have any personal connection to this one, it's just someone who came to me looking for some help. Any insight would be appreciated.
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Offline BrownCoatOtaku

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #196 on: March 14, 2017, 13:11:22 »
CANFORGEN 038/17 CMP 022/17 141424Z FEB 17

PROMOTION POLICY FOR MEMBERS ON MATERNITY AND PARENTAL LEAVE

UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. CFAO 11-6 COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY-OFFICERS-REGULAR FORCE
 B. CFAO 49-12 PROMOTION POLICY - OFFICERS - PRIMARY RESERVE
 C. CFAO 49-4 CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS REGULAR FORCE
 D. CFAO 49-5 CAREER POLICY NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER - PRIMARY RESERVE

1. AS A RESULT OF A GRIEVANCE, THE CDS DIRECTED AN UPDATE TO THE POLICY ON PROMOTION WHILE ON MATERNITY AND PARENTAL LEAVE


2. THIS POLICY WILL BE APPLICABLE TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE CAF. THE PROMOTION DATE FOR MEMBERS ON MATERNITY OR PARENTAL LEAVE WILL BE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION AS PER THE PROMOTION MESSAGE OR LETTER. NORMALLY THIS WILL BE SET AT NO LATER THAN 14 DAYS PRIOR TO THE COS OR, WHEN ALL REQUIREMENTS ARE ACHIEVED IN CASES WHERE NO COS IS NEEDED


3. NEW PROMOTION POLICIES WILL BE AMENDED TO REFLECT THIS NEW APPROACH. SENIORITY WILL STILL BE GIVEN AS PER THE PRESENT POLICIES


4. THIS CHANGE IS EFFECTIVE AS OF THE DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THIS CANFORGEN


5. QUESTIONS MAY BE REFERRED TO DMCPG 2-3 THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND

Offline medgoal

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #197 on: April 02, 2017, 16:28:04 »
Anyone have and wisdom/insight/predictions into how the federal govt's promise of 18-mo mat leave will affect MATA/PATA?
When would those changes take effect? And only for people starting their mat leave after that date or those already on it?

I see this under QR&O 16.26 (7):

(7) (Maternity Benefits Extended) If a period of maternity benefits received under the Employment Insurance Act, or a provincial law or scheme, is extended in accordance with the Employment Insurance Act or the provincial law or scheme because the officer or non-commissioned member returns to duty under paragraph (6), the end date of the period of maternity leave granted shall be extended by the period that the maternity benefits are extended under the applicable law or scheme.

TIA

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Re: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #198 on: April 07, 2017, 14:21:03 »
Anyone have and wisdom/insight/predictions into how the federal govt's promise of 18-mo mat leave will affect MATA/PATA?
When would those changes take effect? And only for people starting their mat leave after that date or those already on it?

I see this under QR&O 16.26 (7):

(7) (Maternity Benefits Extended) If a period of maternity benefits received under the Employment Insurance Act, or a provincial law or scheme, is extended in accordance with the Employment Insurance Act or the provincial law or scheme because the officer or non-commissioned member returns to duty under paragraph (6), the end date of the period of maternity leave granted shall be extended by the period that the maternity benefits are extended under the applicable law or scheme.



TIA

Bear in mind that the QR&O you are quoting is for Maternity Leave, and the 18 months of benefits that the federal govt is talking about would be affecting the parental leave/benefits. QR&O 16.27 for Parental Leave doesn't have any similar paras. Maternity benefits only make up the initial 17 weeks of MATA/PATA. I believe the changes announced in the budget would primarily affect Parental Leave.

Once the actual legislation has been enacted, IE changes to the EI Act and such, then DND's decision makers will be able to decide on making changes to QR&O 16.27, and CBI 205.461. Though just because EI benefits are changing, doesn't necessarily mean that we will alter our top up for the additional six months.