Author Topic: Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)  (Read 125755 times)

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the patriot

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Alleged Institutional Racism/solutions in CAF (merged)
« on: January 19, 2002, 10:26:00 »
Hello,

Just an observation of things as they currently are within the system regarding Institutional Racism.  Nowadays, no one will be stupid enough to go up to someone‘s face and start insulting them with racial epithets or behaviour.  Instead,  they will make a soldier‘s life miserable by using the system against them.  Are there any troops out there that have noticed this happening among their units?  Furthermore, the Americans seem to have a better grasp on this.  For example, the head of their Army is of Oriental ancestry.  I am referring to General Shinseki.  He was recently on television awarding decorations to his soldiers on CNN.  I have yet to see someone other than an Anglophone or Francophone for that matter be promoted to  the Senior Officer or General Ranks within the Canadian Armed Forces.  Is this another politically correct commentary?!  Not really...  Everyone laughs at SHARP untill someone becomes a victim of someone‘s ignorance.

-the patriot-   :cdn:

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2002, 13:00:00 »
I don‘t go around with my eyes closed, but personally I have‘nt seen it in a long, long time. If you have proof it‘s happening, act like a soldier, step to the line and report it, don‘t complain about it. If your going to try stir that pot here, you‘ll need a bigger stick!
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JRMACDONALD

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2002, 16:33:00 »
Hey Patriot- got tired of getting kicked around with your FN vs C7 nonsense.  :D  Recce guy - Hoo Rah!

spacemarine

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2002, 17:13:00 »
Well I‘m sure he wasn‘t hired because he has chinese or japanese, he was hired because he could do the job. So if a white francophone or anglophone can do the job than anyone else, they also get it. I‘ve never seen people discriminated against because they‘re a visual minority. The reason there‘s no non-caucasian higher ups in the Canadian military probably because the command reflects the soldiers below them (except on the language issue)and there‘s not many negroes or mongols in the Canadian Forces.

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2002, 17:16:00 »
And the fact that they are senior officers, who joined CF when there weren‘t many minorities around.

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2002, 15:23:00 »
I owe Patriot an apology.  I used to yell at him for posting long articles with no comments of his own.  Now that I read what he‘s capable of when he thinks for himself, please let‘s go back to plagiarism.  It may be your only hope of looking intelligent.
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cagomez

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2002, 13:29:00 »
I‘ve been a reservist for several years now and am visible minority. I‘ll admit that the majority of my comrades are anglo/franco phone but I myself have never experienced any racism, prejudice or anything of the matter. I feel it simply reflects were you live and the people there. I‘m from a smaller town but go visit any unit in say Toronto and you seel a tone of personnel from all walks of life. In fact myself and the few other minorities feel quite proud serving a country that has been so good in welcoming our families we all share a strong comradeship with all the other members of the unit. As for promotions, I am granted the seniority and the respect that goes with it because I have earned it and because my NCOs and officers have the confidence in me that I am capable of leading the newer recruits.

the patriot

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2002, 21:47:00 »
My Michael.... what‘s your opinion on this.  Looking intelligent includes taking an issue seriously.  I take racism very seriously.  Do you have any minorities under your command in the Calgary Highlanders?  If any of them felt that they were being systemically violated, how would you treat them?!  

-the patriot-  :cdn:

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2002, 22:48:00 »
Once upon a time, I remember instructors shouting at candidates "SHAKE YOUR HEAD DOPEY!  DO YOU HEAR ANYTHING?  NO?  WELL, I‘M NOT SURPRISED - THERE‘S NOTHING BETWEEN YOUR EARS!!!"

Institutional racism?  For Pete‘s sake - give it a rest.
The Army has been self-flagellating itself long enough - let‘s move forwards (in other words, I‘m sick and tired of this " oh so politically correct McCarthyism").

In a good Army, all soldiers and officers will be treated as they deserved to be treated - no more, no less.
Furthermore, if one discovers evidence of racism or any other offence they should report it - to the police, to the Ombudsman, to their superiors, to their mommy ... whatever.
And, if there is no evidence of racism, let‘s get on with life - there are plenty of other problems to be tackled, without resurrecting bogus ones.

Okay?  I hope this inane thread will now die a silent death.

SIgn me "Somebody sick and tired of witch hunts".

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the patriot

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2002, 15:37:00 »
Unfortunately for those who are victimized, it isn‘t "Politically Correct McCarthyism".  Granted, I agree, call the police and the ombudsman.  Report the behavior.   There are those who I know will resort to Reverse Racism.  I believe they are completely justified to do so.  How else are they to level the playing field with the white majority?!I‘m sorry to say, but the Canadian Military is guilty of systemic practices up and down the chain.  For those who take this issue seriously, you may browse the following site.

 Ontario Network for Human Rights

-the patriot-   :cdn:

spacemarine

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2002, 16:12:00 »
"Level the playing field"??? You have some crazy ideas. The white majority does not have an advantage, there is no conspiracy against you. I would hazard to say that a non-white would be given preference in the application process that a white would not. Everyone is treated the same once in, and if they aren‘t, take it up the chain of command. You can‘t be justified in bieng racist against the majority.

Black6

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2002, 09:44:00 »
PATRIOT - stop sniffing glue, lysol or whatever you have in that paper bag of yours. If you really knew anything about racisim, you would know that you cannot punish people for "the sins of the father".

NO other country in the world bends over backwards to make all cultures "fit in" like Canada does. So zip it or go to whence you came from and try and sell them the same BS you are spearding here - and keep your head attached to your neck. Good Luck!

Offline Paul Gagnon

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2002, 22:06:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by the patriot:
[qb]Hello,

Just an observation of things as they currently are within the system regarding Institutional Racism.  Nowadays, no one will be stupid enough to go up to someone‘s face and start insulting them with racial epithets or behaviour.  Instead,  they will make a soldier‘s life miserable by using the system against them.  Are there any troops out there that have noticed this happening among their units? [/qb]
Are you making accusations or are you bucking for a new job as a sensitive news(and I use that word lightly) reporter?  An unfit soldier‘s life will be made miserable no matter what their ethnic background. All this touchy feely crap has gone way overboard.

Offline Firefly

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Racism
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2005, 13:42:48 »
Hi, I'm planning to join the CF after I graduate from university.  I know this is a stupid question but being Chinese, would I face a lot of racism or be picked on?  I know most of you ain't racist, but racism exists and I was wondering to what extent in CF.  Thanks for the help.

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Re: Racism
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2005, 13:46:29 »
No, ......next!!!
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Racism in the Canadian Forces?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2011, 23:59:45 »
I am of mixed race with my mother being Caucasian and my father being Jamaican.  I am very interested in joining the Canadian Forces Reserves.  I know from personal experience (Toronto and Winnipeg) that Canada is a very diverse country and that people are accepting of each other for the most part.  The main target of racism that I have witnessed in Canada so far is against the Aboriginal peoples.  Has anyone here had any encounter of racial tension in the Canadian Forces?

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Re: Racism in the Canadian Forces?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2011, 01:12:28 »
Déjà vu, I feel like I've read this thread before.

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Re: Racism in the Canadian Forces?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2011, 01:30:26 »
Thought so. Do you have a link to anything similar?

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Offline opcougar

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 10:49:28 »
This month being black history month, and with dnd having these big poster boards in certain building with pictures of black Canadian soldiers dating back from when till the 1990s, but with only 2 pictures of officers ( Capts ). I was wondering if anyone has come across a black CF member of African decent of the rank of LCol and above?

There are many Majs knocking around in the different elements and a few CWOs that I have seen. Also how many black have received the CDS commendation and other non-deployments medals?

It is true that the US does things differently, and I don't think we are going to see a Colin Powell like person here anytime soon. The Toronto police has a black deputy chief of police and Vancouver has a Chief of police that is of Chinese background, which is more than can be said for other cities and provinces

aesop081

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 10:57:56 »

It is true that the US does things differently, and I don't think we are going to see a Colin Powell like person here anytime soon. The Toronto police has a black deputy chief of police and Vancouver has a Chief of police that is of Chinese background, which is more than can be said for other cities and provinces

Wouldnt want the best person for the job now would we .....

 ::)

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 11:03:42 »
Wouldnt want the best person for the job now would we .....

 ::)

Sure we would, but let's be serious here..........for the past god knows how many years, there hasn't been the odd black good enough to be a LCol, full Col or BGen?

aesop081

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2011, 11:06:24 »
for the past god knows how many years, there hasn't been the odd black good enough to be a LCol, full Col or BGen?

I do know what the answer is to that but so f'ing what ?

If there has not been, what would you have the CF do? Promote one just to say we did ?

An individual gets promoted based on his/her own merit. Thats it.

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2011, 11:12:37 »
This month being black history month, and with dnd having these big poster boards in certain building with pictures of black Canadian soldiers dating back from when till the 1990s, but with only 2 pictures of officers ( Capts ). I was wondering if anyone has come across a black CF member of African decent of the rank of LCol and above?

There are many Majs knocking around in the different elements and a few CWOs that I have seen. Also how many black have received the CDS commendation and other non-deployments medals?

It is true that the US does things differently, and I don't think we are going to see a Colin Powell like person here anytime soon. The Toronto police has a black deputy chief of police and Vancouver has a Chief of police that is of Chinese background, which is more than can be said for other cities and provinces

You have to look at it from a census point of view. Vancouver has a Chinese Chief of Police, Toronto a black one, rest of Canada, not so much. Well, Canada is a pretty diverse country, but censuses show that in smaller provinces, there are not the largest concentrations of different ethnicities. I have a first-hand perspective on it. My wife is Latin American and I swear she's the only one in my city of 150 000 people. For African Americans, a very very small populations and an even smaller one with other ethnicities. We have had a Colin Powell like person already, Michaelle Jean is black, Haitian-descended and pretty much the highest power of our country and technically the 'Commander-in-Arms' of the Canadian Forces.

The difference between the US and Canada (in the Military sense), you have to be a citizen to fight for Canada, my wife is was born in the US and is a former Marine, and she informed me of the US Military incentive that if you're an immigrant, illegal or otherwise, you can join the military and earn your citizenship. Of course, this isn't publicly advertised. Think of how many people at that point join just for that? Look as well at the numbers of minorities in the US compared to here in Canada. Have you thought that maybe the reason we don't have a lot of 'minorities' in our Armed Forces is just because they don't want to be?
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Institutional Racism In The Canadian Armed Forces?!
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2011, 11:13:13 »
I was wondering if anyone has come across a black CF member of African decent of the rank of LCol and above......CDS commendation.....
Are you suggesting we increasingly promote, and give meritorious awards, to non-whites simply based upon skin colour?
 ::)

For posts like this to come across as anything other than uninformed pot-stirring, one would have to provide some numbers. What percentage of, say Majors, in the CF are Black (since that's your obvious focus). I would be surprised if it's even 1%. Yet, you're suggesting they be promoted to LCol...just because.

Since you obviously don't have any numbers to back your premise, take a look at military personnel on any parade square; how many non-caucasian are present? Yes, the overwhelming majority of CF members are white. It has absolutely nothing to do with the KKK or the Black Panthers or the Chinese Triads -- it's the current reality of Canadian demographics and the people who are drawn to CF service.



ps -- I happen to know several non-white pers who have CDS Commendations, GG Commendations, and even Wound Stripes. Good soldiers and leaders come in all shades, but we all bleed the same colour. Anyone suggesting otherwise a ******* idiot.
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