Author Topic: The Great Gun Control Debate  (Read 696239 times)

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3650 on: March 30, 2017, 07:31:59 »
Narrative is if there isn't guns around then there are less firearm injuries. I wonder where they can be going with that eh?  ::)

No. We would simply be talking about research into crossbows and longbows accidents instead ... Oh! And still be talking about the fight over the longbow registry elimination.  [:D

Offline Lightguns

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3651 on: March 30, 2017, 07:57:12 »
No. We would simply be talking about research into crossbows and longbows accidents instead ... Oh! And still be talking about the fight over the longbow registry elimination.  [:D

and swords, spears, clubs, axes, war hammers, catapults, two sticks, rocks, feet and hands, split.......  Everything is a weapon or not...
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3652 on: March 31, 2017, 21:52:44 »
If we had true zero tolerance for drugs, alcohol, extreme sports, etc, there would no deaths from those either (except among the dedicated and persistent scofflaws).
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3653 on: May 22, 2017, 12:12:10 »
She makes a very good point. Those who get to set policy should understand the process.
https://www.facebook.com/michellerempelmp/videos/1436231856436129/?pnref=story
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Offline recceguy

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3654 on: May 22, 2017, 15:31:48 »
Damn fine idea, same should go for police. Many police don't have a PAL or RPAL unless they hunt or have personal firearms. Many jurisdictions don't require it for police. They carry as a condition of employment. While they may be the best shot on the range and cool under fire, they don't know the firearms laws the way PAL and RPAL holders do. One has only to witness the amount of stops or premise and vehicle inspections where police seize firearms and recommend charging people because they are totally oblivious to the laws of civilian ownership and use. There have been untold cases where firearms are misidentified and seized because the police would not use the FRT program available on their computers to identify the firearm, just that it looked scary to them. It takes no more than five minutes to go to the program and identify every firearm in the country by manufacturer, type of action, unrestricted, restricted or prohibited, length of barrel, pictures of the markings, calibre, etc. It's all there in an annually updated program, including pictures, but for reasons unknown, they don't or won't use it. There is absolutely no excuse for not identifying a firearm properly with tools like this. Your shotgun can be uncovered and unloaded, right beside you in your truck. That is NOT illegal, but lots of hunters and farmers have been charged and had them confiscated because the cop thinks it has to be trigger locked, in a case and stored out of sight. It costs the cops zilch. It often cost thousands of dollars for the owner to fight, what is essentially, a bogus charge that'll be thrown out. If the cops can't keep and destroy your firearm, they will nickel and dime you to death. The Crown is complicit in this, and will often offer a plea bargain of getting rid of your guns and a weapons prohibition for 10 years in exchange for not dragging you through court, costing you thousands of dollars that you can't afford, even when the charge will eventually be dismissed.

The liebrals will use their majority and it likely won't even get passed the first round, because this would be a good thing for firearms owners and the liebrals don't like things that make firearms owners happy.

If a liebral doesn't like firearms, nobody should have them.
If a Conservative doesn't like firearms, they just don't buy one.

Bit of an off topic vent.  :salute:
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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3655 on: May 22, 2017, 16:48:31 »
Print this.

Laminate.

Make a couple of spare copies.

Keep them all in your car....if you ever get stopped and have a firearm in the car with you, hand it to the cop making the stop.

If the cop goes fishing for guns, hand that to him/her, along with your PAL and ask them to have a look at it before they ask to inspect your firearms.

Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

Offline mrcpu

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3656 on: May 22, 2017, 17:51:21 »
I always try a and go above and beyond whenever possible.  For example I trigger lock my shotgun when travelling to and from my hunting spot.  That said, I don't bother when travelling from one spot to another. 

Part of this is that the gun is already locked at home so I don't bother unlocking until I get to my spot.  Part of it is that I have nosy neighbors so I leave my shotgun locked in the car until it gets dark and then I go bring it in.

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Offline Loachman

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3657 on: May 31, 2017, 12:46:20 »
JUSTICE FOR GUN OWNERS - WHY DID THE LIBERALS BLINK?

May 31, 2017 - POSTED BY: BCWFPAA
. UN's marking regulations have been postponed
. Amnesty for tardy applicants for PAL extended to 31 December 2017
. The Conservative Hunting and Angling Caucus

http://justiceforgunowners.ca/why-did-the-liberals-blink/

Offline Loachman

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3658 on: May 31, 2017, 12:54:11 »
E-1093 (FIREARMS) 42ND PARLIAMENT

NOTE:  10,500 SIGNATURES AS OF MAY 31, 2017, 7:00 AM MST

Initiated by Tracey Wilson from Ottawa, Ontario, on May 17, 2017, at 2:09p.m. (EDT)

The Petition is open for signature until September 14, 2017, at 2:09 p.m. (EDT)

Sponsored by Michelle Rempel, Calgary Nose Hill, Conservative Alberta

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-1093

PETITION TO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

Whereas: We, the undersigned, residents of Canada draw the attention of the
House to the following: That given that the Minister of Public Safety's
unelected Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee will shape the future of
firearm regulation in our country, its members must adequately understand
and represent the very people affected by its recommendations, being
Canada's shooting community.

Therefore, your petitioners, call upon the Minister of Public Safety and
Emergency Preparedness to require individuals appointed to the Canadian
Firearms Advisory Committee to have earned their Possession and Acquisition
License (PAL), without which they lack a baseline understanding of the
activities they are tasked with regulating.

Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3659 on: May 31, 2017, 13:41:52 »
Damn fine idea, same should go for police. Many police don't have a PAL or RPAL unless they hunt or have personal firearms. Many jurisdictions don't require it for police. They carry as a condition of employment. While they may be the best shot on the range and cool under fire, they don't know the firearms laws the way PAL and RPAL holders do. One has only to witness the amount of stops or premise and vehicle inspections where police seize firearms and recommend charging people because they are totally oblivious to the laws of civilian ownership and use. There have been untold cases where firearms are misidentified and seized because the police would not use the FRT program available on their computers to identify the firearm, just that it looked scary to them. It takes no more than five minutes to go to the program and identify every firearm in the country by manufacturer, type of action, unrestricted, restricted or prohibited, length of barrel, pictures of the markings, calibre, etc. It's all there in an annually updated program, including pictures, but for reasons unknown, they don't or won't use it. There is absolutely no excuse for not identifying a firearm properly with tools like this. Your shotgun can be uncovered and unloaded, right beside you in your truck. That is NOT illegal, but lots of hunters and farmers have been charged and had them confiscated because the cop thinks it has to be trigger locked, in a case and stored out of sight. It costs the cops zilch. It often cost thousands of dollars for the owner to fight, what is essentially, a bogus charge that'll be thrown out. If the cops can't keep and destroy your firearm, they will nickel and dime you to death. The Crown is complicit in this, and will often offer a plea bargain of getting rid of your guns and a weapons prohibition for 10 years in exchange for not dragging you through court, costing you thousands of dollars that you can't afford, even when the charge will eventually be dismissed.

The liebrals will use their majority and it likely won't even get passed the first round, because this would be a good thing for firearms owners and the liebrals don't like things that make firearms owners happy.

If a liebral doesn't like firearms, nobody should have them.
If a Conservative doesn't like firearms, they just don't buy one.

Bit of an off topic vent.  :salute:

As I recall CBSA started off arming it's officers by making them go through the PAL course in order to save costs on record checks and such.

Offline recceguy

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3660 on: May 31, 2017, 13:51:44 »
I believe you now have to have it when you apply to CBSA. No PAL no job.
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind.”

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Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3661 on: May 31, 2017, 14:03:37 »
I believe you now have to have it when you apply to CBSA. No PAL no job.


Not just a PAL, but an RPAL.
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Offline recceguy

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3662 on: May 31, 2017, 17:13:10 »
Not just a PAL, but an RPAL.

Just to clarify somewhat. We all call it an RPAL, but that's just something everyone does to define their situation a bit better. In actuality, there is only a PAL. RPAL refers to a PAL with 'restricted' as a condition on the back. Much the same as I don't also have a PPAL with 'prohibited' as a condition. I have a single PAL with non restricted, restricted and prohibited on the back. The front, on all PALs is the same,  'Firearms Licence - POSSESSION * ACQUISITION". Nothing about class.

So, to join CBSA now, you need a PAL with 'restricted' listed as a requirement.

No idea what a 'collectors' looks like or is called. I don't know any 'collectors'  ;D
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 17:19:43 by recceguy »
“I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind.”

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Offline Haggis

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3663 on: May 31, 2017, 19:45:34 »
Just to clarify somewhat. We all call it an RPAL, but that's just something everyone does to define their situation a bit better. In actuality, there is only a PAL. RPAL refers to a PAL with 'restricted' as a condition on the back. Much the same as I don't also have a PPAL with 'prohibited' as a condition. I have a single PAL with non restricted, restricted and prohibited on the back. The front, on all PALs is the same,  'Firearms Licence - POSSESSION * ACQUISITION". Nothing about class.

You are, in a very detailed way, correct, Recceguy. My answer was quite simplistic.

So, to join CBSA now, you need a PAL with 'restricted' listed as a requirement.
Yes.  From the CBSA website:

"Applicants must meet these three basic requirements before they apply to the officer trainee (developmental) position:
- A secondary school education.
- Successful completion of the Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC) and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course (CRFSC) and pass the tests. Please visit the Canadian Firearms Program website for further information.
- Possess and maintain a valid driver's license that allows the holder to drive a motor vehicle in Canada.

Applicants are responsible for meeting all of these requirements on their own time and at their own expense. If an individual chooses to apply, they will be required to submit proof (original document and one (1) copy) at any time during the selection that they met these requirements when they applied. Again, this proof could be requested at any time during the selection process."
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Offline Loachman

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3664 on: May 31, 2017, 21:26:08 »
No idea what a 'collectors' looks like or is called. I don't know any 'collectors'

No difference.

Offline Lumber

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3665 on: June 01, 2017, 09:08:12 »
Quote
So, to join CBSA now, you need a PAL with 'restricted' listed as a requirement.

"Applicants must meet these three basic requirements before they apply to the officer trainee (developmental) position:
- A secondary school education.
- Successful completion of the Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC) and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course (CRFSC) and pass the tests. Please visit the Canadian Firearms Program website for further information.
- Possess and maintain a valid driver's license that allows the holder to drive a motor vehicle in Canada.

The quote by Haggis seems to contradict (somewhat) the quote by recceguy. Completing the CFSC and CRFSC does not automatically reward you with a PAL; you still have to apply for it, with your certificates as proof of completing the training.

So, if someone took the courses, and got their certificates, but did not bother to apply for a PAL, then it would appear, based on the CBSA website, they would have met the requirements for application. So, actually, you don't need a PAL to apply for CBSA?
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3666 on: June 01, 2017, 10:22:46 »
No difference.

It used to be a collector could not take his guns to the range and a shooter could not be a "collector". Whoever dreamed that up was on drugs or purposely trying to screw the gun owners. Personally I suspect both.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3667 on: June 01, 2017, 10:30:15 »
Not really Colin.

The general theory is that a collector's purpose is to display his/her firearms and therefore, they have to be near permanently disabled. A 'collector" who simply wishes to accumulate a large number of weapons and simply keep them in working order then stashed away like regular weapons IS a shooter, not a collector.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3668 on: June 05, 2017, 18:16:23 »
.

Looks like the NFA stole a membership list from the CPC and started sending letters to CPC members.
Real class act them.

https://www.google.ca/amp/news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/tories-up-in-arms-after-pro-gun-group-obtains-conservative-party-membership-list/amp

Quote

OTTAWA — The Conservative party is demanding that the National Firearms Association destroy a party membership list that it appears to have illicitly obtained from one of the camps in the recent leadership contest.

“We are aware that our members are being contacted by an outside organization,” the party said Friday in a Facebook post.

“We will be issuing a cease-and-desist letter to the organization in question, demanding that they destroy the list.”


Party spokesman Cory Hann later confirmed that the organization is the National Firearms Association.

The party’s move came after numerous Conservatives complained through social media that they’d received a letter this week from the NFA, seeking a donation.

They suspected that the association had obtained their names and addresses from the party membership list, distributed to each of the 14 candidates during the leadership race, which concluded last weekend with the election of Andrew Scheer.


« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 18:28:17 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3669 on: June 06, 2017, 07:06:59 »
.

Looks like the NFA stole a membership list from the CPC and started sending letters to CPC members.
Real class act them.

https://www.google.ca/amp/news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/tories-up-in-arms-after-pro-gun-group-obtains-conservative-party-membership-list/amp

Yes, and they started the usual round of deleting comments and banning paid up members from their social media sites.  Pretty much the Sheldon Clare and friends gun club........
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3670 on: June 06, 2017, 10:17:06 »
Likely they were given the list by someone in the party, stealing would infer some sort of illicit action on their part.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3671 on: June 07, 2017, 01:20:56 »
Likely they were given the list by someone in the party, stealing would infer some sort of illicit action on their part.

At the very least I would suggest it's highly unethical. If the CPC party is giving away members personal information to dubious  groups like the NFA who else are they giving, or selling it to?
If I get home and I have a nfa letter waiting for me ill be pretty pissed.
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3672 on: June 07, 2017, 06:31:46 »
Likely they were given the list by someone in the party, stealing would infer some sort of illicit action on their part.

It's been traced to one leader campaign and the party has given that candidate a choice of losing his deposit or offending up the offending staff member.  Wait and see right now. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline Lightguns

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3673 on: June 07, 2017, 06:33:53 »
At the very least I would suggest it's highly unethical. If the CPC party is giving away members personal information to dubious  groups like the NFA who else are they giving, or selling it to?
If I get home and I have a nfa letter waiting for me ill be pretty pissed.

You sound like the crowd on Gunnutz.  The party did not do anything, one leader campaign staff member did something and it has been traced to that campaign.   The party set the rules and a campaign staff broke them.  There will be a disciplinary action taken.  AND it was not the campaign that had the lobbyist for the NFA working for it. 
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Great Gun Control Debate
« Reply #3674 on: June 07, 2017, 11:16:03 »
You sound like the crowd on Gunnutz.  The party did not do anything, one leader campaign staff member did something and it has been traced to that campaign.   The party set the rules and a campaign staff broke them.  There will be a disciplinary action taken.  AND it was not the campaign that had the lobbyist for the NFA working for it.

Which campaign was it?
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