Author Topic: MARS Officer- Merged Thread  (Read 24094 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 85Impala

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 0
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 58
MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« on: March 10, 2005, 15:58:57 »
In the coming months I have to decide what MOC I want to choose and I have narrowed it done between MARS and some other choices. I was wondering if there was a MARS officer on here that I could PM, e-mail, add to messenger or just talk to, to get a better idea of life as a MARS officer. Thanks.

Ryan
You'll Never Walk Alone.


Offline jd.trick

  • Guest
  • *
  • -15
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2
MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2007, 11:16:13 »
Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but have been visiting Navy.ca for some time and it has been very useful for me; thanks.  I am considering joining the Navy as a MARS officer.  The only thing which is making me hesitate is the amount of time I'm going to have to spend away from home (Halifax).  I understand the probability of being posted to Halifax is high, but how long from the time I begin Basic to the time I end NOTC will I be away from my family?  I've seen all the outlines but they all seem to carry caveats so I was looking for an idea from someone who has gone through this as to how long the combined basic, second language training and NOTC will take?

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 98,990
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,658
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: MARS
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2007, 11:41:57 »
All I can say is that if you can't accept leaving your home/hometown don't join the forces. The best time to leave your hometown is when you are young and single, no matter what you do, most interesting jobs require some amount of movement to get rank or seniority. Better to do it now, than when you have a family.

Offline jd.trick

  • Guest
  • *
  • -15
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2
Re: MARS
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2007, 11:49:51 »
Thanks for the post.  I understand there will be sacrifices and requirements to move. My question was more focused on if it was going to be necessary to relocate my family initially or if the training aspect away from where we are now (Halifax) is reasonable (I don't know what reasonable is right now, best ask my wife that one) then I would simply go it alone as opposed to moving my family to the west coast only to move back nine months, a year, a year and a half later.  It this timeline I'm trying to get a handle on.

Thanks again

niceasdrhuxtable

  • Guest
Re: MARS
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2007, 18:07:33 »
I'm not sure the Navy would be your best choice if your family has an issue with you being away frequently for extended periods. You may want to look more at trades which don't tend to "travel" as much.

Offline Hastings

  • Guest
  • *
  • 845
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 24
MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 18:42:23 »
First off.  I apologize for posting this here, if it is the incorrect place to post this.  I'm not familiar with how to properly file posts on this site.

On the forces.ca website it says under the MARS MOC description "Rapid Career Progression".

Does this mean that MARS officers tend to climb the ranks faster than other officer MOC's.  IF two people are just as good at their jobs and one is an INF O and the other MARS O is the MARS O going to be a Leut. Commander prior to the INF O becoming a Major?


Any insight into this would be appreciated if people who are in the know have experience with this.

Offline ModlrMike

    : Riding time again... woohooo!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 193,289
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,361
    • Canadian Association of Physician Assistants
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 16:20:21 »
Apples and oranges. Officers and NCMs compete amongst others of their MOCs, not directly against each other in different MOCs. Much depends on the number of available promotions each year in each MOC, which is highly variable. It is very difficult to measure the speed of promotion in different occupations by direct comparison. "Rapid Career Progression" is a nice phrase, but very very subjective.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

Offline Hastings

  • Guest
  • *
  • 845
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 24
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2009, 22:19:54 »
So the speed at which one could potentially advance through an officer MOC depends on the saturation of the MOC.   So if there weren't many MARS OFFICERS and the CF was trying to beef up its numbers in that MOC that would suggest that it would be easier to "progress".

Do I understand this correctly?



Offline Ex-Dragoon

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 46,432
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,999
  • dealing with life not that active here anymore
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2009, 22:23:45 »
So the speed at which one could potentially advance through an officer MOC depends on the saturation of the MOC.   So if there weren't many MARS OFFICERS and the CF was trying to beef up its numbers in that MOC that would suggest that it would be easier to "progress".

Do I understand this correctly?




It also depends on how well you grasp your phase courses as a MARS Officers.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Hastings

  • Guest
  • *
  • 845
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 24
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2009, 22:27:55 »
By "grasp your phase courses" you mean the quality of officer you are and the skill that you have?

Offline Ex-Dragoon

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 46,432
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,999
  • dealing with life not that active here anymore
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2009, 22:30:45 »
No....you have differnet levels you must pass before being even considered a MARS officer. You fail one and they may not allow you to move and may release you or remuster you.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Hastings

  • Guest
  • *
  • 845
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 24
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2009, 22:35:25 »
Ah... so you are saying. You can't progress the ranks if you don't pass the 12 months of training in Esquimalt and Halifax.

Offline Ex-Dragoon

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 46,432
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,999
  • dealing with life not that active here anymore
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2009, 22:41:11 »
Where did you get that? Read what I said....search for MARS Officer training here and other sites and you will get your answer.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline ModlrMike

    : Riding time again... woohooo!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 193,289
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,361
    • Canadian Association of Physician Assistants
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2009, 23:26:25 »
So the speed at which one could potentially advance through an officer MOC depends on the saturation of the MOC.   So if there weren't many MARS OFFICERS and the CF was trying to beef up its numbers in that MOC that would suggest that it would be easier to "progress".

Do I understand this correctly?

No, I don't think you do. A smaller MOC would have proportionally fewer promotions in a given year, so movement would therefore be slower in that MOC than in a larger one. However, larger MOCs have more people to comtete against. Promotions are based on merit within one's occupation. Merit is a combination of performance, training, experience, and potential, to name but a few factors.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 23:28:22 »
You can't progress the ranks if you don't pass the 12 months of training in Esquimalt and Halifax.

Yes. If you dont pass MARS training then you are not qualified. If you are not qualified, you cant progress. Seems rather intuative wouldn't you say ?

Offline Monsoon

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 21,740
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 765
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2009, 23:39:57 »
Ah... so you are saying. You can't progress the ranks if you don't pass the 12 months of training in Esquimalt and Halifax.
You'll be constantly evaluated at various levels throughout your career as a MARS officer; the phase training is really only the beginning. Because there's currently a relative shortage of senior MARS officers (thank you, mid-90s Force Reduction Plan), if you are extraordinarily quick to grasp the training and happen to be very capable at the various different and unrelated things that will be expected of you at the different ranks, theoretically you could be rapidly promoted. For the hypothetical superman in question, this would mean achieving command of a heavy and being promoted Commander after - again, theoretically - as few as 13 or 14 years in. But for all practical purposes that just doesn't happen.

Now, having crossed all those hurdles and made it that far, you would definitely have a better chance of making it to, say, Capt(N) or Cmdre than your Log or Int counterparts. But I would suggest that the average entrant is likely to make it to LCdr or Cdr sooner as a LogO or Int O than as a MARS officer. It's just that those trades plateau quickly after that.

Offline dapaterson

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 361,285
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,536
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2009, 09:09:40 »
Because there's currently a relative shortage of senior MARS officers (thank you, mid-90s Force Reduction Plan),

Um, no.

FRP saw an increase of 2-3% in releases, a marginal impact - it essentially paid out a lot of extra money to folks who, statistically speaking, were going to get out anyways.

The problems we're now seeing are because FRP didn't work - so to hit the reduced Reg Force strength targets, we essentially shut down recruiting for the better part of a decade.  That's where today's shortages come from.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Monsoon

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 21,740
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 765
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2009, 18:43:11 »
Touche. Guess that should have been "plan to reduce the forces" rather than "Force Reduction Plan". Either way, we're still dealing with it.

Offline ltmaverick25

  • The keyboard is mightier then the sword!
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 14,700
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 652
Re: MARS Officer "Rapid Career Progression"
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2009, 04:43:25 »
In my opinion the MARS MOC is the hardest trade to hit LCdr/Major level in the CF.  MARS officers have many more requirements they have to do before LCdr then other trades do.  However, other trades like Int or Log often get stuck at two bars due to the nature of the trade.  They are not command related trades so you wont see many senior officers in those trades.  I would think you have a better shot at hitting 2.5 bars as a MARS officer then you do Int or Log, but, other line officer trades likely move a little faster then MARS does. 

Offline OutWest

  • Guest
  • *
  • 40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1
No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2009, 21:55:45 »



I received a phone call today from the local recruitment office (Vancouver), and I was told that there are no more MARS positions available this year. Okay, fair enough.

Here's what's interesting:

Two separate recruitment offices (Edmonton, Vancouver) informed me that the Navy is dying for MARS applicants.

I was told this in September before I moved back to the West Coast, and then again when I submitted my application three weeks ago in Vancouver.

I applied to go in as DEO MARS, but it appears the CF won't be looking to fill any more spots until next March.

I find this odd given the current media attention regarding the Navy's recruitment issues.

Anyone else have any intel on this?


It looks like I can wait until March and then re-apply, or switch my trade to Naval Combat Systems Engineering or Marine Systems Engineering.

MARS is my first choice, but the bottom line is that I have a good education, I want to serve and I want an adventure.

Any advice?


Offline PMedMoe

    is now a flat-faced civvy.... :).

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 244,895
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,970
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2009, 22:02:50 »
It's possibly the same situation happening with other trades right now.  It's not that they don't have positions, but the training system is full until the new fiscal year.  They don't want to send you to BMOQ now only to have you sitting for months waiting for trades training.  Chances are, you won't have to reapply in March, they'll just hold your file and update it if required.  As far as going other trades, that's a personal choice, but if you're really set on going MARS, then wait.
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving".
~ Lao Tzu~

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 421,315
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,148
  • Crewman
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2009, 22:07:50 »
You are applying for DEO MARS.  Perhaps all the positions allotted to DEO MARS officer are now filled, while there are still openings for MARS officers under other Entry Plans which you do not qualify for. 
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline armychick2009

  • Member
  • ****
  • 6,400
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 213
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2009, 22:34:41 »
I think they are because they keep offering it to me as an option for DEO ... I just don't like ships (long term, unless necessary), so it's not really a good fit for me :D

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 421,315
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,148
  • Crewman
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2009, 01:02:59 »
I think they are because they keep offering it to me as an option for DEO ... I just don't like ships (long term, unless necessary), so it's not really a good fit for me :D

How current is this?
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline mellian

  • Banned
  • Full Member
  • *
  • 6,405
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 362
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2009, 01:59:14 »
MARS was brought up to me as well back last January and again when I finally submitted my application in June.

Offline armychick2009

  • Member
  • ****
  • 6,400
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 213
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2009, 09:15:51 »
George, this was last Thursday or Friday. They said there were a lot of positions open... but, maybe their information was a bit on the older side? I can't picture "lots" of positions getting filled in a week though. They've been bringing this up since March when I first started to show an interest in joining.

Offline gcclarke

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 26,170
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 795
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2009, 09:52:12 »
Go engineer. It's much better. Sure, you won't ever be the captain of a ship, but then again, neither will the majority of MARS officers. In the meantime, engineers don't eat their young, MARS bars do.

We had a fellow on our NOAB who had originally been slated to be a CSE. At the NOAB, he was enticed by the prospect of "Command", and all that jazz. Fast forward 5 years, and he should just be starting his CSE apps course, having OT'd after having been caught by the MARS training's notorious failure rate. Unfortunately for him, this little detour means that he won't be making Lt(N) until a good 3.5 - 4 years after he would have had he stuck with his original plan.

It's just a better work environment for engineers. Less blading, less berating, etc. The manner in which I've seen some MARS D-Level qualified MARS officer interacting with Subbies on ship is about the same as I'd expect an Engineering Commander. There is, from what I've seen, a great deal more, well I guess you'd call it camaraderie, amongst the Naval Engineers than amongst their MARS brethren.

Part of this, I believe, is due to the fact that there's not nearly as much competition for positions amongst engineers. Almost everyone will eventually get their HOD tour. Once that's out of the way, there's more than enough jobs to go around ashore. As opposed to having to fight for the XO and CO positions, assuming of course that you're lucky enough to get a spot on the Ops Room Officer (ORO) course. It's a matter of ratios. On ship, amongst the engineers, per department, you'll have 1 HOD, 1 AHOD, and 1-2 Trainees. Pretty much everyone gets their chance for all of those positions. As opposed to the combat department, with 1 CO, 1 XO, 2-3 OROs, 4-5 D-levels, and gaggle of Bridge Watch Keepers (BWKs). Getting to the next rung gets progressively harder and harder.

And if you're wondering, I'm a CSE, with a Mechanical Engineering degree, who had originally joined up as an MSE. Only joined up as that because the person at the CFRC had given me the impression that with my degree I could only be a MSE. Switched during basic training.

Oh, and PMedMoe was likely correct about the cause of MARS being filled. The reason that MARS has a shortage of personnel isn't due to recruitment problems. It's due to a high level of training failures and VRs. Getting people in the door is one thing, getting them out as a qualified Bridge Watch Keeper is another.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

Offline MARS

  • Mentor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 53,760
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 761
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2009, 10:38:21 »
I would echo much of what gcclarke just wrote.

I couldn't imagine recommending that someone enrol as MARS unless it is something you really, really want to do, I would think at the exclusion of any other occupation.  Even if I had joined the Regular Force and had a wider opportunity of at-sea officer occupations, I would still have chosen MARS and only MARS.

MARS training is too short, frankly, but that is the way it is.  Everyone I had the pleasure of instructing at NOTC were bright, hard working officers, all of who had received top marks in their academic careers and all of who were unaccustomed to failure.  MARS training is so different from anything most people had previously done in their lives, that, with the exception of the really switched on ones, most found it extremely difficult.  I have no understanding of engineering except for what my Chief Engineer tells me when something is broken.  This is usually relayed in the measured tones one would use when speaking to a child who just doesn’t get it. ;)  I would assume that someone with an engineering or logistics education would find some manner of familiarity in their naval engineering or logistics training.  I really don’t think the same apples to MARS.  My Arts degree did not prepare me for the joys of vector physics, spherical trig, ship’s stability or meteorology, to name a few.  And as soon as you start to grasp any one of those topics, you are moving on to another one.  Then you have to lead in an inspirational manner.  Captain of your football team, kind of thing.  Heck, you barely have a grasp of your own skills, and now you are expected to be bale to recognize the faults of your team – and correct them?  And you must demonstrate an ability to do this before you even leave MARS IV – before you even leave the simulator actually.  It cripples a lot of people who tend not to take it very well because they were, up until that point, really good at most things they had ever attempted.  So yeah, we fail a lot of people.

Command at sea is, from what I am told, the most fun you can have in the Navy with your clothes on.  I hope so, I have busted my a$$ for the last 15 years to get to a position to Command.  And yes, MARS is and remains, obviously, the only route to Command at sea.  Now, the situation is not quite as dire as gcclarke makes it out to be, but Command at-sea is still the primary route for MARS officers - and the ONLY route to Flag rank. A couple of days ago, CMS released the latest Naval Officers' career progression plan.  It is to be given the widest distribution to Naval Officers, so I will post the parts relevant to this dicussion below (MARS and NTO):

-------------------------------------
The demanding operational challenge of service at sea represents a unique opportunity to practice leadership and war-fighting skills that are at the heart of the naval profession.  Accordingly, achieving effect at sea remains the raison d’être of the professional military mariner, and will continue to form the basis of the officer development model.   For this reason, the longstanding practice of selection of our most senior leaders from the sea-going command stream will not change.  Indeed, I expect every MARS officer to vigorously pursue command at sea.  Similarly, I view the developmental foundation of Naval Technical Officers and Naval Logistics Officers to be built through service in the Fleet, and subsequent shore command opportunities are key in the development of these respective communities’ most senior leaders.

MARS OFFICERS

Command Stream.  The first group of MARS officers is represented by those employed in the command stream.  The completion of early navigation training, progression through ‘D level’ and ORO postings; the attainment of command qualification; and appointment as Executive Officer and Commanding Officer will remain the primary focus in the first half of their career.  It is most important to have LCdrs complete the Joint Command and Staff Program (JCSP) prior to their tour as Executive Officer, and ideally, an officer will have served at least one tour in NDHQ prior to assuming command at sea.  From a career progression perspective, submarine command shall continue to be viewed as an equivalent to a surface warship XO tour.

   In almost all cases, promotion to Captain(N) is dependent on successful surface warship command, and is recognition of the potential to reach Flag rank.  Post-command employment will necessarily focus on operational and strategic level exposure and development.  In order to ensure that future senior leaders have a full appreciation of issues affecting the Navy and the CF, mobility is essential.  Every attempt will be made to ensure that these officers receive a broad geographic exposure to the Navy, with emphasis on senior command billets and demanding NDHQ staff positions.  The requirement for senior leaders to have an awareness of, exposure to, and an ability to successfully operate in the strategic environment, something which can only be gained through work in NDHQ, cannot be overstated.  Pursuit of a Post Graduate degree, Professional Development Period 4 (DP4) qualification (National War College) and early second language proficiency are key professional development requirements for progression to the highest ranks.   

   Peer competition is the cornerstone of our merit process, and only the very best from this command stream will one day command our Fleets, Formations and the Navy. Moreover, it must be understood that not all will be provided the opportunity to exercise their command qualification.  The Naval Succession Planning Board (NSPB) will remain the objective vehicle by which officers are selected for sea-going command appointments, and by extension, potential future institutional leadership positions.  However, those officers who are not selected for command are essential to realizing the vision of a credible and relevant navy for today and a strong navy of tomorrow, and they will be selectively employed to this end.   In special circumstances, it is foreseeable that select numbers of these officers would attain the rank of Capt(N).

   Institutional Leaders.  The second group of MARS officers encompasses those post-ORO officers who do not achieve command certification, but remain desirous of serving in a wide range of challenging positions.  Demanding NDHQ staff positions, operational level HQs and international staffs form the majority of positions for employment consideration.  Although Flag rank is not a possibility for this group of officers, I anticipate that the breadth of experience they would accumulate would mean that a certain number could achieve the rank of Commander and, on very rare occasions and in specific circumstances, attain the rank of Captain(N).  Institutional level professional development (ie. JCSP, SLT) would be atypical and any further investment in training and education would be tailored to meet the demands of future specific employment (ie.  HR, resource management, Ammunition Technical Officer, oceanography, project management). 

   Staff Support.  It is important to recognize that the minimum professional basis for leading the application of force in the maritime environment is the ORO course.  The third stream of MARS officers encompasses those who do not hold this qualification.  Officers in this area would be career managed in a manner that would develop staff expertise in a number of fields that are meaningful to the Navy and the CF, and it is envisioned that a select few could progress to LCdr to undertake niche employment opportunities.  As a general rule, NDHQ offers the majority of employment opportunities for this group of officers.  Professional development beyond that required for niche expertise or specific taskings would rarely be considered.

NAVAL TECHNICAL OFFICERS

12.    The NTO is in a unique military occupation devoted to naval operations and associated support. The raison d’être of the NTO is to serve as a naval officer, all the while gaining valuable technical expertise and materiel management skills that can be leveraged for operational success. 

13.    Sea experience for the NTO is vitally important to his/her foundational development.  While academic and theoretical knowledge are cornerstones of the NTO’s cognitive and technical abilities, these elements are finely honed under the operational conditions found only in sea going units.  As a starting point, all NTOs will successfully complete Phase VI training to achieve occupational competency that is the entry-level qualification for all technical officers.  To build on this initial foundation, it is expected that all officers will strive for Head of Department (HOD) qualification and subsequent selection as HOD in a sea-going unit. The experience gained in the HOD tour is invaluable in terms of developing the technical leadership in operations while building significant management skills for downstream postings.

14.    Post Graduate (PG) training opportunities are numerous and represent highly beneficial academic qualifications that serve to broaden the individual’s knowledge base while acquiring advanced technical expertise in a chosen field.  Aspiring officers are encouraged to pursue a PG degree, normally at the rank of Lieutenant (N) / Lieutenant Commander, in order to provide the greatest benefit to the Navy while broadening their own skill-sets. Technical, project management, and broad management (MBA, MEng Mgt) post-graduate studies represent important professional development for those officers seeking leadership positions within the NTO community.

15.    Employment opportunities and patterns vary greatly for NTOs, and there are a number of positions available to acquire the breadth of experience required for NAV ENG employment.  Tours of duty in NDHQ in general, and ADM (Mat)/DGMEPM and DGMPD(L&S) in particular, are considered essential to NTO development, particularly during the post-HOD period.  In this milieu, the technical and materiel support requirements necessitate strong leadership skills, expertise in resource management, project management, strategic planning acumen and specialist engineering knowledge.  NTOs are entrusted with major capital acquisition and fleet sustainment activities, such as project management, Life Cycle Management, and Class Manager positions.  In these challenging positions, NTOs must effectively blend their leadership, operational experience and technical expertise to enhance current and future operational materiel readiness objectives.

16.    The spectrum of opportunities outside of the mainstream technical field is far-reaching.  These ‘purple’ positions denote jobs in the wider CF that broaden an officer’s appreciation of the overall CF and yield a greater understanding of the corporate organization.  Positions in areas such as recruiting, training and leadership academies, personnel management, UN missions are valuable to the NTO and the Navy.  In addition, an early appreciation of civilian HR management issues is a key enabler to NTO development.

17.   In addition to DP4 qualification and a CBC second language profile, the prerequisites for Flag rank include demonstrated success in operational units, strategic staff positions and command appointments.  Coastal command opportunities (such as School Cmdts and GTO at the Commander rank, and CO FMF/BComd at the Capt(N) rank), are available to the NTO as determined by the NSPB.  These appointments are considered significant opportunities to demonstrate future potential for positions of greater responsibility and career advancement.  Equally significant roles to demonstrate future potential are the NTO operational support positions in the Formations (such as FMF Departmental Head/FTA/N37 at the Cdr rank) and the Headquarters Matrix and Project Management leadership positions (such as DGMEPM Section Heads or MCP DCM at the Cdr rank or DGMEPM Director or PM MCP at the Capt(N) rank.)
------------------------------------

Hope this post helps with your decision-making process.

Cheers,

MARS
"Managers do things right; Leaders do the right thing"

Offline Retired FDO

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 11,865
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 553
  • Swallowing the anchor after 32 years.
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2009, 14:37:41 »
It's true, MARS and MSE DEO, as of the typing opf this have one position each. Consider them done. MARS COETP still has 13 positions open. NCS has 6 positions left. It will be closed soon. A lot of our trades are filling up fast. Plenty of Tech jobs open in the NCM world!
A Veteran-whether active duty, retired or Reserve- is someone who at one point in their life, wrote a blank cheque made payable to "The Country of Canada" for an amount of "up to and including my life"   Author Unknown

Attitude is the difference between an ordeal and an adventure

Offline gcclarke

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 26,170
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 795
Re: No more MARS recruitment this year?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2009, 15:08:14 »
FDO: Are those number pre or post NOAB?
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

Offline srhodes

  • New Member
  • **
  • 770
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2009, 22:01:37 »
Hello:
Curious to hear how things (the process) is going with any current MARS applicants out there and what the recruiting people have been saying to you.
Good luck and please keep us posted...

Offline ltmaverick25

  • The keyboard is mightier then the sword!
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 14,700
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 652
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2009, 02:31:29 »
Looks like we have become a victim of our own recruiting success.  I have a number of friends who just made it into MARS and started BMOQ in Oct, but I have others that have to wait until the next year.  As has already been mentioned, the CF is simply unable to accomotate all the new potential recruits that are interested in joining certain trades.  But if you keep at it, you will get your shot.

Offline bullitt

    Back from BMOQ and NETPO!!

  • New Member
  • **
  • 2,660
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 36
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2009, 13:19:14 »
My application and enrollment was smooth, however, I am going into the Reserves so I do not know if that bears any difference or not!
Today is yesterday's tommorow

Offline estoguy

  • Member
  • ****
  • 4,870
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 201
  • Aspiring CF Pilot
MARS - questions, positives/negatives?
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2013, 12:47:51 »
Hi everyone,

I'm just doing a little more research into MARS.  I've been on the fence the last couple years about considering it.  I'm certainly not against going to sea or fear a long deployment.

I'll be honest and say that a couple people have warned me away from the trade, so that has weighed on my mind as well.  Essentially, that the Navy "eats its young" as one put it.  Is this true?

What are the positives and negatives of being a MARS? 

My understanding is that they don't do NOABs anymore, correct?  So how does the selection process work now?

Thanks!
"The future is uncertain and the end is always near"
- Jim Morrison, "Roadhouse Blues"

A little hard, because you want it
A little hard, cause you believe
A little hard, yeah its worth fighting for
A little hard, is why you succeed.

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 421,315
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,148
  • Crewman
Re: MARS - questions, positives/negatives?
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2013, 13:01:31 »
Out of curiosity, how old are you?  So far, you have applied or asked about almost every Trade/Occupation in the Canadian Armed Forces.  It may be time to make a choice and stick to it.  You are applying for Pilot and ACSO at the moment, but have applied for several other Trades in the past.  Make up your mind.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline estoguy

  • Member
  • ****
  • 4,870
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 201
  • Aspiring CF Pilot
Re: MARS - questions, positives/negatives?
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2013, 13:14:38 »
I'm sorry if you're getting a wrong impression of me.

I'm not just jumping around. I tend to be an open minded person and am keeping the options open. 

The positions I have previously applied for were:

Infantry O - applied too late in the year.

Last year I interviewed for Pilot and Armour O - medical kept me from moving forward at the time.

Honestly, I've looked at the positions that are available to me, given my education and background. I know myself and could see myself in any of the positions I've looked at. I know that certain areas are closed to me because of education, etc, so those are, obviously, off the table.
"The future is uncertain and the end is always near"
- Jim Morrison, "Roadhouse Blues"

A little hard, because you want it
A little hard, cause you believe
A little hard, yeah its worth fighting for
A little hard, is why you succeed.

Offline RussTheMann

  • Guest
  • *
  • 500
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 20
MARS Specialization and D-Level Courses
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2016, 16:34:31 »
Hi all,
This is a question pertaining to MARS training, and what you can do.
So I know for MARS, after you get your BWK, you can specialize in, IMD (Information Management Director), SAC (Shipborne Aircraft Controller), ASWC (Anti-Submarine Warfare Director), SWC (Above-Water Warfare Director) or FNO (Fleet Navigation Officer).
I have two questions about this;

can someone give me a quick rundown of what each specialization does?
are these the only 5 you can choose? I was under the impression there was a number of other D level routes you can take.

thanks everyone!

Offline Scott

    - apparently an antagonist.

  • Likes fire and loud noises.
  • Chief of Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 175,140
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,371
  • El Scorcho Diablo
Re: MARS Specialization and D-Level Courses
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2016, 16:44:17 »
Russ,

If you have a question then feel free to post it. But please don't spam the boards by starting multiple threads for the same thing.

The others have been deleted.

Thanks

Be nice for no reason.

Offline Scott

    - apparently an antagonist.

  • Likes fire and loud noises.
  • Chief of Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 175,140
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,371
  • El Scorcho Diablo
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2016, 16:54:01 »
Holy crap, I managed to figure out how to merge it without skimming through all of the board's threads.

Thanks for the link, Mike.
Be nice for no reason.

Online mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 409,050
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,877
    • The job.
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2016, 17:18:33 »
 :)
Get on the bus. Take a ride with us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2lSGnPl-ww

Offline RussTheMann

  • Guest
  • *
  • 500
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 20
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2016, 18:26:00 »
ooh okay sorry about that! thank you

Offline MikeApplying

  • Guest
  • *
  • 290
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13
Qualified for MARS, now what?
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2017, 12:28:55 »
I wrote the CFAT today and qualified for every officer position I applied for, and MARS is my number 1. However, I was extremely nervous for the test because I want to be in the forces so bad, and I knew how much was at stake if I bombed it. I qualified, but I definitely didn't do great on the problem solving section (aced spatial, did very well on verbal, mediocre on problem-solving). I am wondering how competitive MARS is, and I want to get a sense of how likely I am to get offered a MARS position assuming I do really well with the interview. I'm up for the challenge and I want this very badly!
Recruiting Centre: London, ON Detachment
Regular/ Reserve: Regular
Officer/NCM: DEO Officer
Trade Choice 1: MARS
Trade Choice 2: Intelligence
Application Date: February 3, 2017
CFAT: March 21, 2017
Interview: May 1, 2017
Medical Exam: May 1, 2017
Merit Listed:
Position Offered:
Swearing in:
BMOQ:

Offline Lumber

  • Donor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 38,159
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,470
Re: Qualified for MARS, now what?
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2017, 14:57:37 »
I wrote the CFAT today and qualified for every officer position I applied for, and MARS is my number 1. However, I was extremely nervous for the test because I want to be in the forces so bad, and I knew how much was at stake if I bombed it. I qualified, but I definitely didn't do great on the problem solving section (aced spatial, did very well on verbal, mediocre on problem-solving). I am wondering how competitive MARS is, and I want to get a sense of how likely I am to get offered a MARS position assuming I do really well with the interview. I'm up for the challenge and I want this very badly!

Regular Force or Reserve?

If Reserve, basically, you're in. If Regular Force, I imagine it's probably the same, but I can't speak with even a shred of authority. You'll probably do fine. I've met some TERRIBLE MARS officers. SO far you seem to know how to use proper punctuations... so... good luck!
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower


Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Online mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 409,050
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,877
    • The job.
Re: Qualified for MARS, now what?
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2017, 15:05:07 »
MARS is my number 1.

Change your mind about the Army?

OP: MikeApplying
What happens if you fail infantry training?
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,125369.msg1480049.html#msg1480049
I applied for Armour Officer and Infantry Officer as my second choice.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 16:34:55 by mariomike »
Get on the bus. Take a ride with us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2lSGnPl-ww

Offline MikeApplying

  • Guest
  • *
  • 290
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13
Re: Qualified for MARS, now what?
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2017, 20:54:36 »
Change your mind about the Army?

Yes. The navy is what I was always interested in, until I changed my mind for a time. Ultimately, I decided to stick with what I had always wanted to do. Probably looks like flip-flopping a bit, but that's OK.
Recruiting Centre: London, ON Detachment
Regular/ Reserve: Regular
Officer/NCM: DEO Officer
Trade Choice 1: MARS
Trade Choice 2: Intelligence
Application Date: February 3, 2017
CFAT: March 21, 2017
Interview: May 1, 2017
Medical Exam: May 1, 2017
Merit Listed:
Position Offered:
Swearing in:
BMOQ:

Offline Buck_HRA

    .

  • Directing Staff
  • Full Member
  • *
  • 17,810
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 314
    • CAF - Find a Recruiter
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2017, 08:40:10 »
There aren't a large number enrolled each year (less than 10% of the total enrolment each year are officers) and there is an overwhelming number of people who apply, so most of the DEO Officer positions are very competitive. 

As to the "TERRIBLE MARS Officers" thing, believe me that just because someone does well on a CFAT and scores high enough to be any NCM/Officer occupation they want to be doesn't mean that they will be good at all occupations.  I scored high enough to be any occupation I want and I can tell you that I would be TERRIBLE at most of the Officer occupations. There's only about 4 of them that I would excel in, lol.

Best of luck in your enrolment process :-)

Offline Lumber

  • Donor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 38,159
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,470
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2017, 08:59:44 »
There's only about 4 of them that I would excel in, lol.

Physiotherapy Officer, Health Care Admin, Pulbic Affairs and CIC?


 [Xp
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower


Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Offline Buck_HRA

    .

  • Directing Staff
  • Full Member
  • *
  • 17,810
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 314
    • CAF - Find a Recruiter
Re: MARS Officer- Merged Thread
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2017, 12:02:27 »
Physiotherapy Officer, Health Care Admin, Pulbic Affairs and CIC?
Nope, Yeap, Nope and I don't consider that an occupation ;-)

Log, HCA (due to my my experience in the CAF), and MPO, INT (due to my academic background).