Author Topic: Substantive Rank  (Read 2923 times)

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2017, 22:04:04 »
Wait, hold on. Is the requirement for promotion appointment to MCpl PLQ, or PLQ + PLQ Army portion?

Fly poop out of pepper point, but the appointment of MCpl is still treated like a promotion, much the same as a Avr/Pte/AB getting their first "hook".  I am trying to remember where I read it, I believe its in a CFAO.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2017, 22:14:51 »
Fly poop out of pepper point, but the appointment of MCpl is still treated like a promotion, much the same as a Avr/Pte/AB getting their first "hook".  I am trying to remember where I read it, I believe its in a CFAO.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2017, 22:16:20 »
Timeline reference for discussion,

I think MarioMike captured something key in his quote from the other thread;

Good Morning,

First time poster. I will just lay out the facts:
2009 - Promoted to MS
2010 - Completed CF PLQ
2011 - VOT to army trade
2013 - Completed SQ
2014 - Completed Winter Warfare Basic
2015 - Promoted to MCpl (MPRR says substantive)

Now almost 2 years after promotion, I am possibly having to go back to do the PLQ-A or L MOD4. Are there any references for my specific situation or am I just going to have to do it?

The part in yellow is important, IMO.  We relinquish our rank when we remuster, and our QL (at least I did...went from Army Sgt to AF Cpl QL0 and then, again back to QLO on my final remuster).  So, the question that might need to be answered is, what were the rules for C Army Jnr NCOs to be MCpl Substantive when you were promoted (to the appointment of MCpl  8)) at the time your promotion was Eff?  I left the green machine a decade ago and haven't really followed the whole Army PLQ deal that much, but my memory tells me its changed numerous times.

I've some experience with grievances and you might find time spent on that question is worth it, as I think that is what the question would come down to.  This is the key IMO, to your question of if you are/are not Substantive.  I believe the grievance analyst would also find this very relevant to your situation.  Your CF PLQ would have made you MCpl Substantive when you were still Navy but quite possibly not when you OT to Army and got your Leaf back in 2015.  It is possible the Substantive was in error.

I had thought before MarioMike posted that, that you were a purple trade and was going to say that Environmental training can be taken when moving between Environments regardless of Substantive rank on posting.  Example, if you were say, a Supply Tech Sgt and got posted to a Wing, you would likely find yourself on the IAEQ (Intermediate Air Environmental Qualification course).

Some more info for you to consider here, in Section 7.   http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5031-8.page.  Take a look at the Section 7.3 DP2 stuff and consider it WRT your VOT to Army and promotion to MCpl.

I haven't reviewed all the orders etc in detail, and no doubt double-digit amount of CANFORFENs regarding PLQ and the like in the past few years, but...if you grieved and won, you'd probably still end up taking the applic mods the C Army folks have to do IAW the CANFORGENs under the *required environmental course / trg requirements* stuff, much like the Army DEU Supply Tech Sgt would have to do when he/she was posted to a Wing for the first time.   :2c: 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 22:28:19 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2017, 22:47:53 »
Just reviewing the CANFORGENs I posted earlier, here is the point I would start working backwards if I were you.  Specifically, the CANFORGEN in Ref B, which then leads to another CANFORGEN.  I'll post them here.

CANFORGEN 080/16 COMD CA 010/16 021800Z MAY 16
DP2 LAND ENVIRONMENT LEADERSHIP TRAINING
UNCLASSIFIED

REFS: A. CANFORGEN 051/16 CMP 030/16 301823Z MAR 16
B. CANFORGEN 092/15 COMD CA 019/15 191700Z MAY 15
C. CANFORGEN 101/08 CMP 040/08 031334Z JUN 08
 
4.   COMPLETION OF AJLC OR IJLC WILL REMAIN A MANDATORY PREREQUISITE FOR ALL CA PERSONNEL AS DETAILED IN PARAGRAPH 4 OF REF B TO RECEIVE SUBSTANTIVE APPOINTMENT TO MCPL


CANFORGEN 092/15 COMD CA 019/15 191700Z MAY 15   
PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY IMPLEMENTATION UPDATE
UNCLASSIFIED

REF: A.CANFORGEN 031/13 COMD CA 006/13 211813Z FEB 13 PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY (PLQ-A)
B. A-PD-055-002/PP-002 NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER GENERAL SPECIFICATION NCMGS) DATED 9 FEB 11
C. A-PD-002-PLQ-PC-B01 QUALIFICATION STANDARD DP2 ARMY PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION DATED 19 MAY 11
D. A-PD-002-PLQ-PH-B01 TRAINING PLAN - DP2 ARMY PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION DATED 15 MAY 2012
E. CANFORGEN 101/08 CMP 040/08 031334Z JUN 08 COMMON DP1/DP2 TRAINING REQUIREMENTS FOR CONTEMPORARY CF LAND WARFARE

1.   THIS MESSAGE RESCINDS IN TOTALITY THE CANFORGEN AT REF A.

2.   BACKGROUND. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MOST RECENT REVIEW OF THE NCM PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM AND THE REVISED NCM GENERAL SPECIFICATION (NCMGS) AT REF B, CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE ARMY QUALIFICATION STANDARD AND TRAINING PLAN FOR PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - LAND IN 2012. THESE CHANGES HAVE RESULTED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FOUR MODULE SYSTEM WITH A NEW COURSE NAME: PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY (PLQ-A).
 
3.   COURSE STRUCTURE. THE PLQ-A IS STRUCTURED AS FOLLOWS:
A.   MODULE 1 - MODULE DELIVERED VIA DISTANCE LEARNING (DL) BY 5 CDN DIV TRAINING CENTRE (TC) FOR ENGLISH SERIALS, AND 2 CDN DIV TC FOR FRENCH SERIALS.
B.   MODULE 2 - MODULE DELIVERED IN RESIDENCE (FULL- TIME FORMAT) EITHER AT THE CDN DIV TCS OR AT CBG SCHOOLS FOR THE PRIMARY RESERVE (PRES).
C.   MODULES 3 AND 4 - EACH MODULE WILL BE DELIVERED IN RESIDENCE AT THE CDN DIV TCS.

4.   ALL OCCUPATIONS CURRENTLY REQUIRED TO ATTEND PLQ-L IAW REF E, AND AS EXPANDED BELOW, WILL BE REQUIRED TO ATTEND PLQ-A. SPECIFICALLY:
A.   ALL ARMY MANAGED OCCUPATIONS (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF INFMN): (1) CRMN (2) ARTYMN (3) CBT ENGR (4) GEO TECH (5) ACISS (6) EO TECH L (7) MAT TECH (8) VEH TECH (9) WPN TECH L
B.   THE FOLLOWING NON-ARMY MANAGED OCCUPATIONS: (1) MP (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (2) POST CLK (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (3) COMM RSCH (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (4) INT OP (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (5) CBRN OP (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (6) MET TECH (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (7) MSE OP (ARMY DEU ONLY) (8) SUP TECH (ARMY DEU ONLY) (9) RMS CLK (ARMY DEU ONLY) (10) COOK (ARMY DEU ONLY) (11) AMMO TECH (ARMY DEU ONLY) (12) TFC TECH (ARMY DEU ONLY) (13) MUSCN (ARMY RESERVE ONLY)

5.   IT MUST BE NOTED THAT ALL TRADES IDENTIFIED ABOVE ALSO REQUIRE BMQ - L TRAINING AS A PRE-REQUISITE TO ATTENDING PLQ - A. SOME OF THE TRADES MENTIONED ABOVE WERE NOT INCLUDED IN REF E.

6.   TRAINING DELIVERY. THE FOLLOWING PARAMETERS WILL APPLY TO THE DELIVERY OF THE PLQ-A:
A.   MODULE 1 WILL BE DELIVERED IN A SYNCHRONOUS DISTANCE LEARNING FORMAT THROUGH THE DLN. MOD 1 SERIALS WILL BE LINKED TO SPECIFIC SERIALS FOR TRAINING ON MODS 2 - 4 AS IDENTIFIED ON THE ARMY NATIONAL TRAINING CALENDAR (NTC). TO CATER TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PRES, SPECIFIC SERIALS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED FOR PART-TIME SYNCHRONOUS DELIVERY.
B.   MOD 2 - 4 TRAINING FOR REG F MEMBERS MUST BE TAKEN IN ONE BLOCK IN A FULL-TIME FORMAT AT THE CDN DIV TCS. PRES MEMBERS CAN ATTEND THE REG/PRES SERIALS BASED ON THEIR AVAILABILITY
C.   TO CATER TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PRES, (I) MOD 2 MAY BE DELIVERED IN A PART-TIME FORMAT AT THE LOCAL CBG SCHOOL OR JUST PRIOR TO MOD 3 AND 4 TRAINING AT THE CDN DIV TCS AND (II) MOD 3 AND 4 WILL BE ONLY DELIVERED IN A FULL-TIME FORMAT AT THE CDN DIV TCS AND ARE INTENDED TO BE DELIVERED CONSECUTIVELY WITH STUDENTS REMAINING FOR THE DURATION. HOWEVER, SERIALS SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED AS ARMY RES SERIALS CAN BE ATTENDED BY MODULE FOR PRES MEMBERS.
D.   ALL MODS WILL BE MANAGED VIA THE ARMY NTC AND COURSE LOADED BY CTC HQ.
E.   A COMMON SELECTING AGENCY WILL APPLY TO ALL MODULES OF THE PLQ-A: D MIL C FOR REG F AND LOCAL CDN DIV HQ FOR PRES.
F.   STUDENTS WILL BE NOMINATED FOR THE PLQ-A COMPLETE BY THE SELECTING AGENCY. CTC HQ WILL LOAD AGAINST SPECIFIC SESSIONS BASED ON INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE SELECTING AGENCY.

7.   TIMELINES: FOR THE REG F, MODS 2 - 4 TRAINING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 1 YEAR (12 MONTHS) FOLLOWING COMPLETION OF MOD 1.

8.   TIMELINES: FOR THE PRES USING THE MODULARIZED TRAINING SYSTEM: THE FOLLOWING TIMELINES MUST BE OBSERVED OR TRAINING WILL BE RESTARTED TO PREVENT SKILL FADE:
A.   MOD 2 MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 12 MONTHS OF STARTING MOD 1, AND
B.   MOD 4 MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 24 MONTHS OF COMPLETING MOD 1.

9.   TRANSITION: AT THIS TIME, VERY FEW MEMBERS REMAIN WHO ARE PARTIALLY TRAINED UNDER THE OLD PLQ-L. IN ORDER TO AVOID GAPS IN TRAINING AND SKILL FADE, PERS WHO HAVE ONLY COMPLETED PLQ-L MODULES 1-5 (OR ANY PORTION THEREOF) MUST RESTART AT MOD 1 AS THE ORIGINAL TRANSITION END DATE WAS 30 JUN 2014. ALL OTHER SITUATIONS MUST BE HANDLED THROUGH THE PLAR SYSTEM.
10.   CA LEAD FOR THIS DIRECTION IS THE ARMY TRAINING AUTHORITY (ATA). 


I tried to get CANFORGEN 031/13 COMD CA 006/13 211813Z FEB 13 PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY (PLQ-A) from the iPhone app but, it just links to the 2015 CANFORGEN.
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2017, 22:49:09 »
In 2015, all Army managed MOSIDs needed to complete PLQ-A to be substansive. I don't believe the list of trades required to complete PLQ-A has changed in some time, evidenced by the OPs completion of SQ in 2013 (the same CANFORGEN outlined SQ and PLQ-A requirements for the MOSIDs).

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2017, 23:01:59 »
Here's my take after reading and considering what, IMO, are key dates and facts:

- VOT to Army in 2011 (relinquishment of rank/pay and change of environments)

This is a portion of my message:

3.  PROMOTED TO SUBSTANTIVE MCPL EFF DATE: 2 MAR 15 SEN DATE: 1 JAN 15 EPZ DATE: 1 JAN 17

- ref B to CANFORGEN 080/16 [the latest and greatest on C Army Jnr NCO requirements) , namely CANFORGEN 092/15 COMD CA 019/15 191700Z MAY 15 .  *Note, mbr was promoted Eff 02 Mar 15.  Therefore, IMO, CANFORGEN 092/15 would not be the reference for the C Army MCpl Substantive requirements.

- WRT to the OP, promoted Eff 02 Mar 2015, the rules for C Army Substantive MCpl should be CANFORGEN 031/13 COMD CA 006/13 211813Z FEB 13 PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY (PLQ-A)

If I were the OP, I'd be looking for a copy of that and seeing what it says before taking another step down the grievance route.  :2c:
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 23:09:22 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2017, 20:44:31 »
EITS, I think you're on the right track with the references. The issue here is that the member was given an incorrect promotion message, stating he was a substansive MCpl despite not having completed the full PLQ-A. The CA controls all training requirements, and I do not believe the changes in who has to complete PLQ-A has changed since the original message outlining CA managed trades. Since the OP has not yet entered the training system for their course, they would be subject to whatever is the newest direction from CCA on PLQ/AJLC.

There is also a CANFORGEN stating that there would be no further grandfathering of the PLQ-A, and anyone missing mods would have to redo from the beginning after a certain date. This is where my caution to the OP would be: best case you end up having to do just AJLC. If you push the issue, and someone connects the dots, you redo the whole thing. I'm not back to work until Monday, I'll get that CANFORGEN WRT grandfathering posted, as I believe its wholly relevant to this scenario. I had to look it up for a subordinate who had a similar circumstance.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2017, 00:20:15 »
CANFORGEN 031/13 COMD CA 006/13 211813Z FEB 13 PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY (PLQ-A)

I looked for this on the DWAN tonight to no avail. Perhaps the OP's unit kept hard copies...
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Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2017, 07:04:14 »
CANFORGEN 031/13 superseeded by:

CANFORGEN 092/15 COMD CA 019/15 191700Z MAY 15

PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY IMPLEMENTATION UPDATE

UNCLASSIFIED


REF: A.CANFORGEN 031/13 COMD CA 006/13 211813Z FEB 13 PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY (PLQ-A)
 B. A-PD-055-002/PP-002 NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER GENERAL SPECIFICATION NCMGS) DATED 9 FEB 11
 C. A-PD-002-PLQ-PC-B01 QUALIFICATION STANDARD DP2 ARMY PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION DATED 19 MAY 11
 D. A-PD-002-PLQ-PH-B01 TRAINING PLAN - DP2 ARMY PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION DATED 15 MAY 2012
 E. CANFORGEN 101/08 CMP 040/08 031334Z JUN 08 COMMON DP1/DP2 TRAINING REQUIREMENTS FOR CONTEMPORARY CF LAND WARFARE

1. THIS MESSAGE RESCINDS IN TOTALITY THE CANFORGEN AT REF A.


2. BACKGROUND. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MOST RECENT REVIEW OF THE NCM PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM AND THE REVISED NCM GENERAL SPECIFICATION (NCMGS) AT REF B, CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE ARMY QUALIFICATION STANDARD AND TRAINING PLAN FOR PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - LAND IN 2012. THESE CHANGES HAVE RESULTED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FOUR MODULE SYSTEM WITH A NEW COURSE NAME: PRIMARY LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION - ARMY (PLQ-A).


3. COURSE STRUCTURE. THE PLQ-A IS STRUCTURED AS FOLLOWS:

a. MODULE 1 - MODULE DELIVERED VIA DISTANCE LEARNING (DL) BY 5 CDN DIV TRAINING CENTRE (TC) FOR ENGLISH SERIALS, AND 2 CDN DIV TC FOR FRENCH SERIALS.


b. MODULE 2 - MODULE DELIVERED IN RESIDENCE (FULL- TIME FORMAT) EITHER AT THE CDN DIV TCS OR AT CBG SCHOOLS FOR THE PRIMARY RESERVE (PRES).


c. MODULES 3 AND 4 - EACH MODULE WILL BE DELIVERED IN RESIDENCE AT THE CDN DIV TCS.



4. ALL OCCUPATIONS CURRENTLY REQUIRED TO ATTEND PLQ-L IAW REF E, AND AS EXPANDED BELOW, WILL BE REQUIRED TO ATTEND PLQ-A. SPECIFICALLY:

a. ALL ARMY MANAGED OCCUPATIONS (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF INFMN): (1) CRMN (2) ARTYMN (3) CBT ENGR (4) GEO TECH (5) ACISS (6) EO TECH L (7) MAT TECH (8) VEH TECH (9) WPN TECH L


b. THE FOLLOWING NON-ARMY MANAGED OCCUPATIONS: (1) MP (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (2) POST CLK (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (3) COMM RSCH (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (4) INT OP (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (5) CBRN OP (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (6) MET TECH (ALL ENVIRONMENTS) (7) MSE OP (ARMY DEU ONLY) (8) SUP TECH (ARMY DEU ONLY) (9) RMS CLK (ARMY DEU ONLY) (10) COOK (ARMY DEU ONLY) (11) AMMO TECH (ARMY DEU ONLY) (12) TFC TECH (ARMY DEU ONLY) (13) MUSCN (ARMY RESERVE ONLY)



5. IT MUST BE NOTED THAT ALL TRADES IDENTIFIED ABOVE ALSO REQUIRE BMQ - L TRAINING AS A PRE-REQUISITE TO ATTENDING PLQ - A. SOME OF THE TRADES MENTIONED ABOVE WERE NOT INCLUDED IN REF E.


6. TRAINING DELIVERY. THE FOLLOWING PARAMETERS WILL APPLY TO THE DELIVERY OF THE PLQ-A:

a. MODULE 1 WILL BE DELIVERED IN A SYNCHRONOUS DISTANCE LEARNING FORMAT THROUGH THE DLN. MOD 1 SERIALS WILL BE LINKED TO SPECIFIC SERIALS FOR TRAINING ON MODS 2 - 4 AS IDENTIFIED ON THE ARMY NATIONAL TRAINING CALENDAR (NTC). TO CATER TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PRES, SPECIFIC SERIALS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED FOR PART-TIME SYNCHRONOUS DELIVERY.


b. MOD 2 - 4 TRAINING FOR REG F MEMBERS MUST BE TAKEN IN ONE BLOCK IN A FULL-TIME FORMAT AT THE CDN DIV TCS. PRES MEMBERS CAN ATTEND THE REG/PRES SERIALS BASED ON THEIR AVAILABILITY


c. TO CATER TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PRES, (I) MOD 2 MAY BE DELIVERED IN A PART-TIME FORMAT AT THE LOCAL CBG SCHOOL OR JUST PRIOR TO MOD 3 AND 4 TRAINING AT THE CDN DIV TCS AND (II) MOD 3 AND 4 WILL BE ONLY DELIVERED IN A FULL-TIME FORMAT AT THE CDN DIV TCS AND ARE INTENDED TO BE DELIVERED CONSECUTIVELY WITH STUDENTS REMAINING FOR THE DURATION. HOWEVER, SERIALS SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED AS ARMY RES SERIALS CAN BE ATTENDED BY MODULE FOR PRES MEMBERS.


d. ALL MODS WILL BE MANAGED VIA THE ARMY NTC AND COURSE LOADED BY CTC HQ.


e. A COMMON SELECTING AGENCY WILL APPLY TO ALL MODULES OF THE PLQ-A: D MIL C FOR REG F AND LOCAL CDN DIV HQ FOR PRES.


f. STUDENTS WILL BE NOMINATED FOR THE PLQ-A COMPLETE BY THE SELECTING AGENCY. CTC HQ WILL LOAD AGAINST SPECIFIC SESSIONS BASED ON INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE SELECTING AGENCY.



7. TIMELINES: FOR THE REG F, MODS 2 - 4 TRAINING MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 1 YEAR (12 MONTHS) FOLLOWING COMPLETION OF MOD 1.


8. TIMELINES: FOR THE PRES USING THE MODULARIZED TRAINING SYSTEM: THE FOLLOWING TIMELINES MUST BE OBSERVED OR TRAINING WILL BE RESTARTED TO PREVENT SKILL FADE:

a. MOD 2 MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 12 MONTHS OF STARTING MOD 1, AND


b. MOD 4 MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN 24 MONTHS OF COMPLETING MOD 1.



9. TRANSITION: AT THIS TIME, VERY FEW MEMBERS REMAIN WHO ARE PARTIALLY TRAINED UNDER THE OLD PLQ-L. IN ORDER TO AVOID GAPS IN TRAINING AND SKILL FADE, PERS WHO HAVE ONLY COMPLETED PLQ-L MODULES 1-5 (OR ANY PORTION THEREOF) MUST RESTART AT MOD 1 AS THE ORIGINAL TRANSITION END DATE WAS 30 JUN 2014. ALL OTHER SITUATIONS MUST BE HANDLED THROUGH THE PLAR SYSTEM.


10. CA LEAD FOR THIS DIRECTION IS THE ARMY TRAINING AUTHORITY (ATA). CADTC POC IS CH CA PD CSN 271-8417. ARMY INDIVIDUAL TRAINING AUTHORITY (AITA) POC IS CTC HQ G7 TRG DES (CA), CSN 432-3812. CTC G3 POC FOR COURSE LOADING AND SCHEDULING IS G3 COURSES 2-1, CSN 432-3393 OR CSN 432-2067.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2017, 16:02:53 »
Ya, I already had posted that one above.  What the OP needs, IMO, is 031/13 but it looks like it was removed once superseded.  Might have to ask for the original thru the system.
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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2017, 06:46:03 »
Just noticed that EITS  :facepalm:
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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2017, 16:05:38 »
Ya, I already had posted that one above.  What the OP needs, IMO, is 031/13 but it looks like it was removed once superseded.  Might have to ask for the original thru the system.

Don't you remember your own posts from 4 years ago?! http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,18969.msg1211044.html#msg1211044

Unless the OP is a MET TECH or PRes Army Musician, nothing has changed since 2013 and he was always required to have completed PLQ-L/PLQ-A or the new AJLC. With the new system, his CAF PLQ will cover mods 1-3, and he will only have to attend Mod 4 (which should have been done years ago IMHO).

I highly doubt any grievance would be successful, and would caution again that just because you grieve something, doesn't stop you from losing your rank. You'd only get it back if you win. Are you willing to risk losing that appointment over a 4 week course? I know the pay raise is completely marginal, but that's something that will follow you around in your career.


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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2017, 16:32:29 »
Now that I've seen the 2013 message, better that the OP gets loaded on the course and "grey man's" his way through it.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
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Offline ryanhd20

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2017, 20:14:58 »
K
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 08:08:18 by ryanhd20 »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Substantive Rank
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2017, 15:00:11 »
The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.