Author Topic: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions  (Read 22472 times)

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Offline MCG

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Looks like an Air Cadet Corps has gotten itself in some hot water and garnered ministerial level attention for what was intended to be instructions to desexualize the clothing cadets choose to wear for training.  The criticism is accurate.  If one does not want to see people's underwear hanging out of pants nor butts outlined through yoga pants, then you make that direction as opposed to saying "boys hide your underwear and girls don't wear yoga pants."  But, a national news storey and MND on camera statements seem to be more than this incident merits.

In any case, Reg F and PRes might look forward to one thing migrating across from this.  Gender specific earring regulations are part of what is catching attention in this.
Quote
Dress code guide tells female air cadets not to reveal 'developing bits'
Parent guide says 'girls are to wear shirts which do not reveal their developing bits'

By Lukas Wall, CBC News
30 Sep 2016

A mother in St. John's is in shock and speaking out, after reading a parent handbook for air cadets that she says sexualizes young female cadets.

Melissa Moores said her daughter, 13, went to an event for prospective cadets and received a parent handbook from the 510 Lions Royal Canadian Air Cadet Squadron.

For Moores, one section of the guide stuck out: "The Four Bs" — "boobs, belly, bums, boxers." Specifically, she said, she was shocked by a line that read "girls are to wear shirts which do not reveal their developing bits."

"It just caught me off guard. Why would that be pointed out?" Moores said.

"If everyone's supposed to dress the same, and everyone's supposed to dress respectful, why would it be brought up and actually say 'boobs?'"

She said she was surprised to see that sort of language in the cadets' literature and that it didn't seem appropriate.

"It shouldn't be like that in 2016; it seems very offensive and [it's] sexualizing a woman when it doesn't need to be at all," said Moores.

"It just seemed wrong, I had to read it twice. I had this sick feeling in my stomach. It just seemed it shouldn't be there."

Moores said she doesn't have a problem with the cadet squadron outlining a dress code, but she believes girls are being unfairly targeted by "The Four Bs"

"I understand that cadets and the military, they want everyone to dress the same and it's all about being as one, but I wasn't expecting them to tell my daughter that, being a girl, her boobs are going to be an issue,"

"You wouldn't tell a guy not to wear pants too tight because it would show his 'developing bits.'"

In a statement, Canadian Minister of National Defence Harjit Sajjan called the language used in the parent guide "completely unacceptable."

"This shaming of young women is offensive to me as a person, as a father, and as the minister of national defence," he wrote.

"It is completely inappropriate. I am disappointed that in 2016, these attitudes still prevail and we will be ruthless in stamping it out within our organizations."

Moores said instead of sexualizing girls, dress code advice should be more general and include all cadets.

"If they want the cadets to be dressed a certain way, they should say during PT time — when you're permitted to wear civilian clothing — all dress needs to be loose fitting and you need to be covered appropriately, for everybody."

CBC News has reached out to the 510 Lions and the Air Cadet League of Canada but has yet to receive comment.


 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/female-cadets-told-to-cover-up-1.3785528

Online FSTO

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2016, 14:44:04 »
Yep, once again the CAF will be beat about the head on how bad they are.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2016, 15:48:32 »
Gender specific earring reg's have ALWAYS been in place.  Why would this be an issue?  Is that going to be acceptable in the near future?  Please say no.  Someone, anyone...

What next?  Men allowed to wear skirts when in DEU?

The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 15:50:43 »
What next?  Men allowed to wear skirts when in DEU?
Cue the Highland militia reps......     :pop:


       :stirpot:

Offline Flavus101

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 15:55:32 »
Cue the Highland militia reps......     :pop:


       :stirpot:

That doesn't affect us, they're kilts.  :nana:

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 15:56:32 »
That doesn't affect us, they're kilts.  :nana:
I knew someone  would bite.    :nod:

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 16:02:46 »
Maybe they should allow us males to wear the DEU skirt.  What kind of heels would match the Yukon hat anyways?? 

And, earrings.  Some nice small pearls would finish that look off perfectly...especially if I was able to get a beard chit!!
The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.

Offline MCG

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 16:22:52 »
What next?  Men allowed to wear skirts when in DEU?
... and a blouse when in mess kit.
In the Navy, you may also see guys trading their service cap for a service hat.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2016, 16:26:06 »
Why don't female sailors wear the same headdress?  Why can't men in the CAF wear earrings?  Is this a Leave It To Beaver reenactment society, or can our dress regs change from the 1950s?
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 16:36:56 »
Our dress regs don't have to be so lax as to make us look as 'professional' as the kids working the MacDonalds drive-thru.  The PC truck has to stop somewhere, and people like me think it has already gone a block or 2 too far down the road now. 

We're slowly losing the little things...so I suspect someday you WILL see me in DEU with skirt, earrings, Yukon hat with a beard.  You know, to discard the Leave It To Beaver look and be a professional military airmen. 

Perhaps a new male RCAF mess kit is required?   ;D

The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.

Offline MCG

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2016, 16:46:28 »
Our dress regs don't have to be so lax as to make us look as 'professional' as the kids working the MacDonalds drive-thru.
Are earrings really the line in the sand on that?  Nobody is talking nose rings, lip studs, or ear grommets.  A guy wearing a subdued metal ear stud is going to make the CAF look like a bunch of Walmartians?

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2016, 16:49:40 »
 :facepalm: f35k.

When will the stupidity stop?
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2016, 16:52:40 »
Are earrings really the line in the sand on that?  Nobody is talking nose rings, lip studs, or ear grommets.  A guy wearing a subdued metal ear stud is going to make the CAF look like a bunch of Walmartians?

There has to be a 'line in the sand' somewhere, no?   For me, yes.  If not, what next?  Makeup and skirts are okay for males too?  Heels?  Where IS the line?  Nowhere?  5 years from now, the nose rings, or lip studs, or ear grommets WILL be allowed if we don't stop this crap at some point.  Earrings are a fine place to stop in my books. 

Seriously.  This is getting ******' ridiculous.

Too attempt to put this back on the original topic though...the 4 Bs part was right out of er IMO.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 16:55:13 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2016, 16:58:57 »
Women need to wear loose clothing to prevent men from being turned on?
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2016, 17:16:45 »
I've said this before publicly:

Some of our citizens emulate the Taliban when it comes to telling women how they should dress.

Earrings on men - not in uniform - ever.
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2016, 17:27:10 »
Personally I feel that our dress regulations should be the same for everyone no matter what their sex, gender, race, or religion is (whether or not this is a higher standard than currently stands doesn't matter to me provided it is a equal standard for all). Our military's dress regulations are sexist (different clothing, hair, make up, and ear ring standards), racist (natives can have ponytails), and discriminate based on religion (beards for certain religions, long hair for certain religions, etc.). Based on this, our regulations violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which we have been ordered to comply with unless we can provide a justified reason (this is also the reason we now have women in every portion of the CF, as we couldn't justify otherwise).

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2016, 17:35:55 »
The accommodations in our dress regs for First Nations mbrs and those with specific religious followings are racist and discriminate?  Wasn't part of the argument for creating these accommodations for First Nations, religion etc based on the idea that are regs previous to current ones were not taking into account these exact things in the first place?  When we didn't have them...we were bad.  Now we have them...we are bad.

You're suggesting we will keep our professional look if men can wear earrings, makeup and skirts in DEU?

 ???

The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.

Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2016, 17:49:23 »
The accommodations in our dress regs for First Nations mbrs and those with specific religious followings are racist and discriminate?  Wasn't part of the argument for creating these accommodations for First Nations, religion etc based on the idea that are regs previous to current ones were not taking into account these exact things in the first place?  When we didn't have them...we were bad.  Now we have them...we are bad.

You're suggesting we will keep our professional look if men can wear earrings, makeup and skirts in DEU?

 ???

I never said that earrings, makeup and skirts should be allowed for men, only that everyone have the same standard. If that means women have to have short hair, pants, and no earring so be it, I really don't care beyond the concept of the same standard for everyone. We all do the same job and therefore should all be held to the same standard. Every argument that was used for the
Express test to the Force test applies here. If this means we should create trade specific standards, I am also ok with that, provided it is the same for everyone within that trade.

Offline CanPatr

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2016, 18:19:48 »
Since when did having a dress code become a problem? Is there a better more politically correct way to tell people what the dress code is?
Why is it sexualizing to tell women (and men) not to have underwear or certain parts showing. Is that not just etiquette?

Also, is she mad at the dress code or the way it was said; I see little problem with either. Its hard to touch on that topic and not offend people. You have to communicate it somehow right?  ??? ??? ???
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Offline Coffee_psych

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2016, 18:57:10 »
This absolutely falls short of what is expected of military personnel.  By pointing out specific items and then associating them to a gender breeds a false logic to young cadets.  Mainly that the sexes are different and should be treated differently.  Except that isn't what the military aims to do, when you're in the military your sex/gender is inconsequential especially during active duty.  You are expected to perform because being a soldier comes first, and everything else comes after.

Get it together St. Johns Cadet admins!

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2016, 19:06:19 »
 I think it's awesome this mom got a response from the minister of national defence before the offending unit in question even responded.  This sounds like a mission for the S.O.R.T.


This absolutely falls short of what is expected of military personnel.  By pointing out specific items and then associating them to a gender breeds a false logic to young cadets.  Mainly that the sexes are different and should be treated differently.  Except that isn't what the military aims to do, when you're in the military your sex/gender is inconsequential especially during active duty.  You are expected to perform because being a soldier comes first, and everything else comes after.

Get it together St. Johns Cadet admins!

We should be careful calling cadets soldiers.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Online FSTO

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2016, 19:14:34 »
I wish that the mom would have went to the Air Cadet Corp directly and voiced her concern over the directive instead of running to the media. This could have been handled in house without the everyone in DND losing their heads to stamp out this "atrocity"!

Guess she wanted her 15 min of fame.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2016, 19:21:50 »
This absolutely falls short of what is expected of military personnel.  By pointing out specific items and then associating them to a gender breeds a false logic to young cadets.  Mainly that the sexes are different and should be treated differently.  Except that isn't what the military aims to do, when you're in the military your sex/gender is inconsequential especially during active duty.  You are expected to perform because being a soldier comes first, and everything else comes after.

Get it together St. Johns Cadet admins!

If your military experience went beyond that of an applicant, you'd maybe realize the reality vice the idea in your post after a few years of experience in the military.  Something to consider.

Men and women are not the same, they don't have the same issues and concerns.  Disagree?  I'll give you 2 solid examples.  Testicular cancer and miscarriages.  Despite our society and their desire to make everything tidy, neat and PC...Mother Nature will prevail. 

Last point, not everyone in the military is a soldier.  I am an airman;  I wear a wedge, air ops capbadge and aircrew wings.  Sailors are sailors.  Cadets are Cadets, whether they are air, sea or army cadets. 

Active Duty is a US military term.   :2c:
The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.

Offline Remius

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2016, 19:50:19 »

Last point, not everyone in the military is a soldier.  I am an airman;  I wear a wedge, air ops capbadge and aircrew wings.  Sailors are sailors.  Cadets are Cadets, whether they are air, sea or army cadets. 

Active Duty is a US military term.   :2c:

According to this the army is made up of soldiers, navy is made up of sailors and the RCAF is made up of personel.  [:D

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about/canadian-armed-forces.page
Optio

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Desexualized clothing instructions fail for gender specific directions
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2016, 20:13:14 »
It takes up less time and space than saying "airmen and airwomen" every time!   8)  They should just make the leap and call us air-people.
The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.