Author Topic: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general  (Read 160292 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-army-headed-to-mission-in-africa-very-soon-top-general

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OTTAWA — The Canadian Army will soon head to a mission in Africa but the military is keeping quiet where and when troops will go.

“The army’s been preparing for the future, preparing for a wide range of future tasks,” Gen. Jonathan Vance, the chief of the defence staff, told soldiers Thursday on Parliament Hill at a change-of-command ceremony for the army.

“Internationally, the army is at the forefront, managing conflicts around the world, contributing to operations in Iraq, building capacity with allies and partners in Poland, Ukraine, and very soon in Africa,” Vance said.

He did not provide details of the African mission.

However, the Canadian government is considering participating in a United Nations mission in Mali, where about 10,000 soldiers now operate. Various armed groups, including Islamic insurgents, have been conducting sporadic attacks in the country.

The mission in Mali is considered among the most dangerous being conducted by the UN. Five Togolese soldiers were killed in May in an ambush and two Dutch peacekeepers were killed last week in a training accident.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Offline MilEME09

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As cynical as it is, given the security situation in both possible locations for this "peacekeeping" operation, I wonder how the government will spin it when the first body comes back. Dozens of peacekeepers have been killed in the past few years. It's a fight against Islamic terrorist groups, this isn't peace keeping, its peace making.
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Offline Dimsum

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As cynical as it is, given the security situation in both possible locations for this "peacekeeping" operation, I wonder how the government will spin it when the first body comes back. Dozens of peacekeepers have been killed in the past few years. It's a fight against Islamic terrorist groups, this isn't peace keeping, its peace making.

Hopefully they won't sweep it under the rug, or relegate it to some back page in the news.  That being said, I think social media will aid in avoiding both.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline Altair

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As cynical as it is, given the security situation in both possible locations for this "peacekeeping" operation, I wonder how the government will spin it when the first body comes back. Dozens of peacekeepers have been killed in the past few years. It's a fight against Islamic terrorist groups, this isn't peace keeping, its peace making.
Hopefully they don't ban media from the repatriation ceremony.

On another note, who thought it would be the peacenik liberals sending the army into combat? I didn't support them for that but it's been a great bonus.
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Offline Dimsum

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Hopefully they don't ban media from the repatriation ceremony.

On another note, who thought it would be the peacenik liberals sending the army into combat? I didn't support them for that but it's been a great bonus.

Who said anything about combat?  No one has seen the ROE for this mission, and I'm willing to eat my hat if the ROE becomes the same as OP ATHENA in Afghanistan.  Peacekeeping and combat are two totally different things.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Altair

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Who said anything about combat?  No one has seen the ROE for this mission, and I'm willing to eat my hat if the ROE becomes the same as OP ATHENA in Afghanistan.  Peacekeeping and combat are two totally different things.
Fair enough. I'm just going off the fact that Canada has been talking to France about how we would fit into one of their deployments in the region, and the french are not doing UN peacekeeping as much as they are peace making.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Canadian "peacekeepers" will live and die by the ROE. 

Let's hope they don't get sold out by the Government thinking that Kumbaya-like ROE will help shine "Sunny Ways" onto more parts of this planet.  :-\

G2G

Offline Jarnhamar

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Do you think they got any advice from Romeo Dallaire on that idea?
None at all.
Hopefully they don't ban media from the repatriation ceremony.

I disagree. I really hope they do ban media from the repatriation ceremony (or continue to do so).  Those ceremonies are for the honoured dead and their families in uniform and out. Not cameras turning it into a social media spectacle or political ammunition for our shitty politicians to fling poo at each other.

Who said anything about combat? 

Exactly. It's all in the wording and how the government portrays it. Our soldiers sailors and airmen could be in TICs every day but it's not combat, because combat is aggressive and scary and Canada is a nation of peacekeepers  ;D

Offline E.R. Campbell

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What France is doing in Africa has nothing much to do with keeping or making the peace or anything else except French perceptions of French interests. France does exactly what it wants, it asks no permission and it seeks no support ... it protects French interests as it and it alone perceives them.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Offline milnews.ca

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... I really hope they do ban media from the repatriation ceremony (or continue to do so).  Those ceremonies are for the honoured dead and their families in uniform and out. Not cameras turning it into a social media spectacle or political ammunition for our shitty politicians to fling poo at each other ...
I agree this isn't a place for politics of ANY kind, overt or implied, and there's ZERO room for harrassing families in mourning. 

That said, if the military wants coverage of the good things it does, there's a case to be made for covering what's not good.  Also, it's Canada's military, so Canadians has some right (not the journalists) to bear witness to the ultimate sacrifice our troops can make, especially on behalf of Canadians.

Here's where I was on the issue ~10 years ago:
... As for the media's "right" to be there, yer damned if you do (media get to blow it up and hype the story), and yer damned if you don't (the media talk about "censorship", and go all papparazzo on the event). 

Personally, as long as it's respectful (that's what ground rules for attendance at events are for), I'm OK with media being there.  We complain if the media doesn't cover the military, so when they do, we have to live with the nasty as well as the good ...
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Offline Dimsum

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I agree this isn't a place for politics of ANY kind, overt or implied, and there's ZERO room for harrassing families in mourning. 

That said, if the military wants coverage of the good things it does, there's a case to be made for covering what's not good.  Also, it's Canada's military, so Canadians has some right (not the journalists) to bear witness to the ultimate sacrifice our troops can make, especially on behalf of Canadians.

Here's where I was on the issue ~10 years ago:

Agreed.  I think that media coverage of ramp ceremonies is a good "gut check" as to why we are doing what we do.  There may be some political footballing, but it will also make the public mourn with us and hopefully remember that we are there because of the government, which is elected by them.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Jarnhamar

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Great post milnews.ca.

It's a really fine line between acknowledging and showing Canada the sacrifice it's soldiers (and their families) are making while remaining respectful and non-political.

It's a bit off topic but as you say 10 years ago I remember we learned a lesson really quick about what happens when the media broadcasted when we were gathering on the KAF airfield to send fallen soldiers home; specifically the Taliban would plan rocket attacks to coincide with the ceremonies to try and kill us while we're all gathered together.

I would hate to see ceremonies today become juicy targets for protestors and anyone else who wants media attention knowing that the media with their cameras will be covering the ceremonies in full force.


Back to the Africa mission I'm not sure where the government thinks we're getting all these soldiers but I'm glad to read this story. I've never been on a UN mission and much respect to everyone who has (understanding how shitty and painful they were) but this feels meaningful to me. 
Not knowing a deployment date means plenty of time to cry about black boots and green tacvests  ;D

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It's a really fine line between acknowledging and showing Canada the sacrifice it's soldiers (and their families) are making while remaining respectful and non-political.
Zackly - and that's why it can be tough to tightrope walk along.

I would hate to see ceremonies today become juicy targets for protestors and anyone else who wants media attention knowing that the media with their cameras will be covering the ceremonies in full force.
+1000
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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What France is doing in Africa has nothing much to do with keeping or making the peace or anything else except French perceptions of French interests. France does exactly what it wants, it asks no permission and it seeks no support ... it protects French interests as it and it alone perceives them.

Pretty much bang on, French military operations in the Sahel are as much about maintaining French control of their mineral interests as they are about "Terrorism".  French electricity is 90% Nuclear Power based, most of that Uranium comes from Mauritania, Mali and Niger.  It's imperative the governments of those countries remain friendly with Paris, it's an energy security issue.

Ditto French Operations in the CAR.  That particular operation was born out of a power play made by the BRICS countries, particularly South Africa with backing from China.  They made a move in to French turf, a coup was staged and in a familiar scene French Colonial Marines seized the airport to "Evacuate Foreign Nationals"  ;D

Offline PuckChaser

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Likely why no one else in NATO has rushed to deploy combat troops to help the French...

Offline dapaterson

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Quick troops to tasks: 1x Bn HQ +1x Rifle coy to Latvia. Balance of 450 commitment is engr,  sigs, int & CSS. Same Bn provides rifle company to Ukraine.  For an African mission, we have 8 more Bns to choose from.  Leaving 7 not deployed.  That suggests a 2 year cycle.
And we still have 3x Armd units to build standby high readiness groups.

Challenging, but doable.

EDIT: fix typo in # of Armd units (fat fingers on phone syndrome)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 10:23:53 by dapaterson »
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Likely why no one else in NATO has rushed to deploy combat troops to help the French...

The French don't need the help.  They've got enough forward deployed forces and pre-staged equipment to take on anyone in that region.  The help we provided in terms of airlift during SERVAL merely sped up the operation, the outcome would have remained the same.

France has an Airborne BG on 72 hrs NTM at all times.  A Reinforcing Bde is on 9 days NTM.  The 50 A400Ms the French Air Force has bought which are just starting to come online should reduce their need for strategic airlift.

The French even have some nice graphics illustrating the airlift capabilities of A400



When the French did SERVAL they flew soldiers in to Ivory Coast and TChad where the equipment was already staged, additional equipment was brought in to Abidjan by Mistrals from Toulon.  Troops drove a couple of thousand Kim's to Mali from both locations, this is why the French love wheeled vehicles so much.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 10:17:27 by Humphrey Bogart »

Offline medicineman

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I honestly don't think PET Jr has learned much from his party predecessors from our experience in the 90's...the only way this is going to work is if the ROE are appropriate for the environment.  If they're anything like the thing I still have from Croatia that fan folds out to something that would have got me killed if I followed it to the T, we'll be burying a number of folks I'm afraid.  Many of you might remember those - "STOP.  STOP or I'll say STOP again.  If you don't STOP, I'll have to think about chambering a round after I've told you to STOP yet again...etc ad nauseum".

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The French don't need the help.  They've got enough forward deployed forces and pre-staged equipment to take on anyone in that region.  The help we provided in terms of airlift during SERVAL merely sped up the operation, the outcome would have remained the same.

France has an Airborne BG on 72 hrs NTM at all times.  A Reinforcing Bde is on 9 days NTM.  The 50 A400Ms the French Air Force has bought which are just starting to come online should reduce their need for strategic airlift.

The French even have some nice graphics illustrating the airlift capabilities of A400



When the French did SERVAL they flew soldiers in to Ivory Coast and TChad where the equipment was already staged, additional equipment was brought in to Abidjan by Mistrals from Toulon.  Troops drove a couple of thousand Kim's to Mali from both locations, this is why the French love wheeled vehicles so much.

Excellent - The French can reinforce St-Pierre and Miquelon with an Airborne Battle Group in 72 hours and a Brigade Group (with 30 tonne vehicles) in 9 days.  At which point the Mistrales can start showing up with the rest of the Division...... Not that they ever would mind you.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Therefore Mali?  French ending non-US mission in CAR, have very few personnel with UN’s MINUSCA–so shouldn’t need Canadian Forces help there:

“France to end military operations in CAR in October”
http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-france-military-operation-car-central-african-republic-sangaris-end/

MINUSCA:
http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/missions/minusca/facts.shtml

French contribution (scroll down):
http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/contributors/2016/apr16_3.pdf

Mark
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Offline George Wallace

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Excellent - The French can reinforce St-Pierre and Miquelon with an Airborne Battle Group in 72 hours and a Brigade Group (with 30 tonne vehicles) in 9 days.  At which point the Mistrales can start showing up with the rest of the Division...... Not that they ever would mind you.

There isn't enough land in St-Pierre and Miquelon to park a Bde Gp of 30 tonne vehicles.
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Online Chris Pook

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I guess they would just have to find some additional parking in the area.
Over, Under, Around or Through.
Anticipating the triumph of Thomas Reid.

"One thing that being a scientist has taught me is that you can never be certain about anything. You never know the truth. You can only approach it and hope to get a bit nearer to it each time. You iterate towards the truth. You don’t know it.”  - James Lovelock

Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others. [Ambrose Bierce, 1911]

Offline GAP

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I guess they would just have to find some additional parking in the area.

Quebec?
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Offline ballz

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12 UN peacekeepers killed in the first 5.5 months of 2016 in Mali. http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=53977

And I would bet my last dollar, Mali is where we are going.
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