Author Topic: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)  (Read 83604 times)

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Offline Remius

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #375 on: December 26, 2016, 08:44:53 »
And Remius, you confirm my statement.

I was actually trying to refute this statement: Refugees, as I understand it are fleeing the fighting until such time as it is safe to return home.

That is a common thought about our refugee system but isn't actual policy.  Hence why there will never be a plan to send them back.  And good luck to the poor fool who tries to make that policy part of any party platform.

I do agree though with Mr. CAmpbell's perfect world argument.
Optio

Offline Canuck_Jock

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #376 on: December 26, 2016, 13:31:30 »
I think the government’s consistent policy is to presume that resettlement of refugees is permanent. This paper compares the Canadian and Australian response to Kosovan refugees: here.  Once Kosovo was secured by NATO, Australia giving them a big cheerio whilst Canada gave them the choice of staying or leaving.

Similarly, in 1998 Germany required that all Bosnian refugees left the country having declared the country safe.
Whether it is right to do is a matter of debate.  Certainly, if refugees were admitted only for the duration of a conflict, then I think the host population at large would be more accommodating.  Alternatively, some conflicts are protracted to decades long, and there is so much power on the migrant/immigrant/refugee advocate industry that I think it is a political non-starter.

Morally, is it questionable to retain refugees?  I see that Germany has commenced a low level programme of teaching the trades so that refugees (70% of the 1 million are working age males) can put them to good use on their return.  There is historic precedent as the quarter million Belgian refugees in the UK 1914-18 were largely concentrated in clumps together and administered themselves.

Imagine if Canada had a policy of teaching refugees construction skills, accountancy, engineering, administration, etc. so that they could help rebuild Syria on their return?  It might prove controversial.  Call me cynical, but no more selfies?? No more heart rending stories of Syrians telling us how fantastic we are and how grateful they are and how much they love Canada. Some segments of the political class can be a bit needy at times.

Although I think it good we have helped several thousand of them, ultimately, there effect would probably be greater in Syria (at war’s end) than here in the longer term.  Certainly, Professor Paul Collier (‘Exodus’) believes that a generous refugee policy followed by a return at conflict’s end, is the best way to rebuild a war torn state.  He calls the returning diaspora, a country’s ‘sovereign wealth fund’.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #377 on: January 04, 2017, 19:59:46 »
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Lack of jobs, housing: why some of Canada's Syrian refugees are relocating
CBC - The Current
Tuesday January 03, 2017

A year ago this December, the first wave of Syrian refugees to Canada arrived in their new homes across the country. But for some, home is still another big move away.

In what's being called a second migration, many refugees from Syria are packing up their lives once again in an effort to find work, to be near family and friends, or even for better weather.

In 2012, Lina Arafeh left Syria for Turkey, and in September moved to Halifax as a refugee, privately sponsored by her friend.

"I love life in Halifax. I love the people. They're very hospitable. The schools are amazing," Arafeh tells The Current's Anna Maria Tremonti.

Arafeh has nine children, five of whom are grown. Her other four are here with her in Canada.

"They have helped my kids adjust. They're doing very very well. I'm happy."

Nonetheless, Arafeh says she plans to move to Toronto when her year of private sponsorship is up. As a  professional interpreter, there are job opportunities in Toronto that don't exist in Halifax.

She says her children are resilient when it comes to having to relocate again.

"These kids I don't know what they're made of. Diamond maybe," she says.

New Brunswick has resettled more refugees per capita than any other province.

About five per cent of Syrian refugees who have settled in New Brunswick this year have left the province and those moves can be hard for the people who sponsor them, according to Janet Hunt. She's part of a welcome team with the YMCA helping government-assisted Syrian families settle in and around Saint John.

Related: Saint John losing Syrian newcomers to larger cities

Three of the families Hunt helped support have left New Brunswick hoping to find job opportunities. But one special family decided to try for one more year mostly because of their close connection to Hunt.

"We've become more than friends,"  Hunt tells Tremonti. "We've become this extended family to each other."

Since last January, settlement agencies estimate that 500 families have moved to Windsor, Ont., from other parts of Canada — the majority are Syrian.

Hugo Vega, chair of Windsor Essex Local Immigration Partnership, says Windsor's large Arabic speaking population, inexpensive housing, and weather make it an attractive location.

Mayas Altahan and her family originally settled in Moncton but moved to Windsor in September.

"I have family members here and they were able to support me, especially with my kids and also the weather. It was cold [in Moncton] and here it's warmer," Altahan says.

"Windsor is different," says Altahan's husband  Ali Alashram.

"I feel safe and happy like the way it was in Syria before."

Vega says this ability to choose the right home is part of what it means to be Canadian.

"They have freedom of mobility and that's something we embrace as far as their choice as a newcomer to be here."

"They've spent time in a conflict that didn't allow them any freedom."

Listen to the full segment at the top of this post.

This segment was produced by The Current's Willow Smith.


More on LINK.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #378 on: April 16, 2017, 11:16:08 »
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Canadians are right to be concerned about border security
By Candice Malcolm
First posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 06:09 PM EDT | Updated: Friday, April 14, 2017 06:17 PM EDT

There is a crisis on our southern border. And Canadian officials seem woefully unprepared to deal with the ongoing flow of migrants illegally crossing into Canada.

These illegal crossings create a real security threat, and Canadians are not happy about it.

An Angus Reid poll is the latest to convey this, finding that nearly three-quarters of Canadians prefer a focus on border security rather than providing aid to those illegally crossing into Canada.

There is near unanimous agreement on the fact that these migrants pose a threat to our national security. Of those surveyed, half say the risk of dangerous people entering Canada is ‘significant’ or ‘huge,’ while 93% agreed there is some level of risk.

Canadians are right to be concerned about the self-proclaimed and self-selected refugees coming in through the back door.

A remarkable video by Faith Goldy of The Rebel Media reveals part of the problem.

On a rural road in upstate New York, Goldy’s video captures the moment when a taxi pulls up and drops off a would-be asylum seeker near the border.

“Sir, where are you from?” she asks. “Syria,” he replies as he proceeds towards the border. An RCMP officer can be seen trying to deter the man from crossing illegally.

“Please stop, you cannot enter here,” says the officer. “If you enter here, sir, you will be arrested and criminal charges can be pressed against you.”

“I’m not safe. I’m a refugee,” says the man, repeatedly, as he ignores instructions from police and continues towards Canada.

The RCMP officer instructs the man to report to the Canadian border, three miles away, but the man insists the police do it his way instead.

“Arrest me from here. We will phone them,” he says, and the police finally follow his command. “You’re under arrest” they can be heard saying, as they escort him away while helping carry his luggage.

It’s an unbelievable exchange, and it shows the docile attitude towards protecting our borders.

This asylum seeker knew exactly what he was doing. He knew that if he entered Canada at an official crossing, he would be met by a CBSA officer. The CBSA guard would be able to determine his admissibility to Canada, and has the power to reject him on the spot.

At a land crossing away from a border station, however, there are no CBSA guards – just RCMP officers who have been sent to patrol the border.

This man has clearly been coached. Someone told him exactly where to go and what to say to enter Canada. And it worked. Not only did this man circumvent our immigration laws, he also bypassed our Syrian refugee program.

Under Justin Trudeau, Canada has generously accepted nearly 50,000 Syrian refugees from the war-torn region.

But to address the security risks – the valid concerns about our ability to screen and vet individuals from a hot bed of Islamist terrorism – the Trudeau government limited the program.

Canada only accepts women, children and families from Syria. The program explicitly excludes single men.

That’s because our security officers believe that admitting single, unaccompanied men from Syria is simply too dangerous.

Yet, somehow, a single, unaccompanied man claiming to be from Syria was able to walk right into Canada — without so much as showing his ID.

No wonder Canadians are concerned. These illegal migrants are acting as though our rules and our laws don’t exist. And, shockingly, our officials are too.



More on LINK.

Well briefed, well coached, persons are being taken to unofficial Border Crossings, and circumventing the system.  These persons can be from any origin, not necessarily Syria, and as such are abusing our Policies.  The Government is showing little concern publicly on this matter.  No wonder people are becoming concerned.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #379 on: April 16, 2017, 13:59:26 »
What exactly could the police have done differently in that exchange?  I see no way, short of erecting a barrier, of changing that.

Offline Nuggs

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #380 on: April 16, 2017, 14:36:09 »
I think we should build a wall and make America pay for it

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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #381 on: April 16, 2017, 14:54:46 »
I think we should build a wall and make America pay for it

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#TrudeauWall2017

Offline George Wallace

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #382 on: April 16, 2017, 16:05:02 »
What exactly could the police have done differently in that exchange?  I see no way, short of erecting a barrier, of changing that.

Was that NOT the whole point of the article?  They are hamstrung by our Laws and the loopholes in enforcing them.  The article is aimed at the Government getting off their asses and doing something before the matter worsens.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #383 on: April 16, 2017, 17:55:01 »
Was that NOT the whole point of the article?  They are hamstrung by our Laws and the loopholes in enforcing them.  The article is aimed at the Government getting off their asses and doing something before the matter worsens.

But what could be done differently?  Canadians can't enforce the law on the US side of the border, the sage third country agreement only applies to actual border crossings, and once they are in Canada, they can only be arrested.  Once they say the word asylum, we have to process their claim.  So, we can't send them back to the US, and even when their claim is done, in most cases, we can't send them home.  I'm not sure the solution.

Further - it was predicted there would be a big spike with warmer weather.  That hasn't happened.  I think there is less actual danger than there is fear. 

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #384 on: April 16, 2017, 18:35:31 »
But what could be done differently?  Canadians can't enforce the law on the US side of the border, the sage third country agreement only applies to actual border crossings, and once they are in Canada, they can only be arrested.  Once they say the word asylum, we have to process their claim.  So, we can't send them back to the US, and even when their claim is done, in most cases, we can't send them home.  I'm not sure the solution.

Further - it was predicted there would be a big spike with warmer weather.  That hasn't happened.  I think there is less actual danger than there is fear.

You just answered your own question. Expedite an amendment to Third Safe Country that bars any applications for refugee status unless they are made at a legal border crossing (that is not with the US). Immediately stops the problem. You should not be able to claim asylum when arriving from the US, including those useless deserters who we've allowed to hide in Canada for years because they wanted a free education, not war when they joined the military.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #385 on: April 16, 2017, 18:39:38 »
If that's possible, I'd be in favour of that.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #386 on: April 16, 2017, 18:43:44 »
If that's possible, I'd be in favour of that.

 The article seriously points out the fact that our Government has done NOTHING to solve the problem; in fact not paying attention to it.  It is time, as I said already, for the Government to get off their *** and address this problem.  PuckChaser has provided one such solution.  Now the Government of Canada must get to work and make it so.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 19:13:16 by George Wallace »
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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #387 on: April 16, 2017, 19:54:20 »
Good luck with getting the present PM to do anything that jepoardizes selfie opportunities and looking pretty.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #388 on: April 16, 2017, 20:00:05 »
I don't buy that its that bad in the US for them to cross the border like that. Are there any numbers on how many have crossed in this manner?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #389 on: April 16, 2017, 20:26:36 »
With the surge of millions into Europe, that still continues, I can see this as the same thing, but on a smaller scale.  Opportunists looking for the handouts that Western nations have through their Social Programs.  It would appear that the American Social Programs, Health and Dental Care, etc. are not as good as ours. 
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Offline YZT580

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #390 on: April 17, 2017, 13:01:50 »
Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #391 on: April 17, 2017, 13:05:54 »
Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.

Unfortunately that's not in accordance with Canada's new "Sunny Ways" and very uncanadian.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #392 on: April 17, 2017, 13:34:56 »
Why not simply provide those RCMP officers tasked with patrolling the border with the authority to rule that an individual is inadmissible.  Give them the authority to say no and then provide the would-be refugee with a one way cruiser ride to the nearest border crossing.  Seems simple and relatively inexpensive.  No individual crossing from the US is running for his life so 'refugee' and asylum do not apply.

I don't think that's possible.  We need an agreement whereby the US takes them back.  Once they're on our side of the border, we can't send them back.  That's why we'd need to modify the safe third country agreement.

Offline Jed

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #393 on: April 17, 2017, 13:39:16 »
I don't think that's possible.  We need an agreement whereby the US takes them back.  Once they're on our side of the border, we can't send them back.  That's why we'd need to modify the safe third country agreement.

Why? 
just do it. What is the harm in that? At least find out if the US Customs officials are cooperative.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #394 on: April 17, 2017, 14:58:35 »
Why? 
just do it. What is the harm in that? At least find out if the US Customs officials are cooperative.

If they're willing take them back, fine.  Somehow, I doubt it. 

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #395 on: April 17, 2017, 15:19:36 »
If they're willing take them back, fine.  Somehow, I doubt it.

I'd have to agree with JMT here;  if they aren't stopping them from leaving/crossing, they are likely just as happy to see them go.  If they aren't US citizens I'd hazard a guess they have a snowballs chance in H-E double hockey sticks of getting back into the US once their 2nd foot crosses over.
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #396 on: April 17, 2017, 15:28:08 »
I'd have to agree with JMT here;  if they aren't stopping them from leaving/crossing, they are likely just as happy to see them go.  If they aren't US citizens I'd hazard a guess they have a snowballs chance in H-E double hockey sticks of getting back into the US once their 2nd foot crosses over.

For the same reason, I feel that they'd be unwilling to amend the safe third country agreement.  The best option, IMO, is to withdraw from the safe third country agreement.  Let these would be asylum applicants apply through the normal channels at CBSA staffed border crossing points.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #397 on: April 17, 2017, 16:09:24 »
If we pull out, it adds a whole whack of issues to the US's border security problem. The reason they're not stopping people in rural Manitoba/Quebec is because a majority of the manpower is down south solving the masses of people trying to cross from Mexico/Cuba.

You can't just throw your arms up and pretend we're in this by ourselves. There's a lot of agreements we can leverage to get the US on border with amendments to Third Safe Country. The problem is, there's no political will/fortitude to do something about it, until one of those people crossing the border kills someone.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #398 on: April 17, 2017, 18:30:58 »
If we pull out, it adds a whole whack of issues to the US's border security problem. The reason they're not stopping people in rural Manitoba/Quebec is because a majority of the manpower is down south solving the masses of people trying to cross from Mexico/Cuba.

You can't just throw your arms up and pretend we're in this by ourselves. There's a lot of agreements we can leverage to get the US on border with amendments to Third Safe Country. The problem is, there's no political will/fortitude to do something about it, until one of those people crossing the border kills someone.

That's because the problem is minor at the moment.  Without US cooperation, we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment.  The US could solve this by A ) stopping them on their side, or, B ) agreeing to amend the safe third country agreement.  Whether they've been asked about that second piece - I have no idea.

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Re: SYR Refugees to Canada (split fm SYR refugees thread)
« Reply #399 on: April 17, 2017, 19:21:32 »
... It would appear that the American Social Programs, Health and Dental Care, etc. are not as good as ours.
If that was the case, why are we seeing what appears to be a surge?  Haven't our programs been different than theirs in the same general ways for a looooooong time now?  Why do you think we're seeing more of this now?
... we are literally doing everything that is legally allowed at the moment ...
The bit in yellow -- if the rules on the U.S. side allowed them to take them back AND the rules on the Canadian side allowed them to just turn them around without due process, this wouldn't be happening.
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