Author Topic: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military  (Read 38156 times)

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Offline Lightguns

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2016, 07:59:46 »
For discussion, I am concerned about how we are applying the term homeless veteran.  16 By 9 did a story on homeless veterans, the profiled 4 specifically, a Calgary cop who was homeless until he became a cop, a Canadian Vietnam Vet who has no Canadian service, a single 3 year engagement PPCLI vet who went and worked 25 years in the Alberta Oil Industry and a 10 year engagement Sailor who left the Navy because of alcohol problems.  The media apply a much larger vet umbrella than VA on this file.  Are we helping yourselves by signing on to a "vet is vet". 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline dapaterson

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2016, 08:04:25 »
Are we helping yourselves by signing on to a "vet is vet". 

On the other hand, who do you want to hand the hammer to decide "who is a vet"? 

"Sorry, your deployment to Bosnia wasn't enough to qualify as a vet."

"Sorry, the accident on your DP1 that left you paraplegic means you were never occupationally qualified, and therefore don't qualify as a vet."
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2016, 08:16:56 »
Are we helping yourselves by signing on to a "vet is vet".

We just had that discussion and it came out that a "Vet" was anyone who had completed Basic Training before Release according to some. 

https://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Veteran

Linked to:  http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-us/definition-veteran

Quote
From the Veteran's Affairs website:

Date modified: 2015-11-03

NEW DEFINITION OF A VETERAN

Any former member of the Canadian Armed Forces who successfully underwent basic training and is honourably released.

When people think of Veterans, many immediately picture someone who served in the First World War, Second World War or the Korean War. While many Canadians recognize these traditional Veterans, the same may not always be true for Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) Veterans—those who served Canada since the Korean War.

In fact, some former CAF members don’t even see themselves as Veterans. Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC) wants to change this and is working to ensure CAF Veterans receive the honour and recognition they have earned and so richly deserve.

VAC considers any former member of the Canadian Armed Forces who releases with an honourable discharge and who successfully underwent basic training to be a Veteran.

This Veteran status recognizes the risk CAF members assume by wearing the uniform and pledging allegiance. Canada’s modern-day Veterans are carrying on the traditions, values and legacy of wartime Veterans and all Canadians, especially our youth, should be aware of their accomplishments and sacrifices.

Please note that other criteria, in addition to Veteran status, are needed to qualify for services from the Department.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 08:20:47 by George Wallace »
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2016, 08:25:24 »
I understand that but how can any organization be given endless liability for someone else's life?  You do three years and you leave, get job, have a great life for 25 years, things go bad and now the VA is responsible to fix it?   
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2016, 08:37:05 »
I understand that but how can any organization be given endless liability for someone else's life?  You do three years and you leave, get job, have a great life for 25 years, things go bad and now the VA is responsible to fix it?

It sounds like you are saying that if you have a great life for 25 years in a civilian job after having "Served' you are no longer a Veteran.  That was not the case for any of the WW I, WW II, nor Korean Vets.  I have a friend now living in Columbia, who was diagnosed with PTSD twenty years after his Release for an incident that happened several years before his Release.   If he were to become homeless today because of his diagnosed problem, would he no longer fall under the "Veteran" standard, in your eyes?
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Online mariomike

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2016, 08:44:01 »
It does go on to say,

"Please note that other criteria, in addition to Veteran status, are needed to qualify for services from the Department."
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2016, 08:47:59 »
No, I am saying that there is should be a limitation of liability to that which is service related.  If you leave after a short time, fit and healthy and go on to make your own way in the world, you have no claim beyond that which is service related, being a short time vet should not be a life time guarantee anymore than any other profession would offer.
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline Lightguns

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2016, 08:53:01 »
It does go on to say,

"Please note that other criteria, in addition to Veteran status, are needed to qualify for services from the Department."

Ack, that would satisfy me.  I just don't believe life should have a guarantee for anyone, that makes it very boring. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline George Wallace

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2016, 09:01:53 »
No, I am saying that there is should be a limitation of liability to that which is service related.  If you leave after a short time, fit and healthy and go on to make your own way in the world, you have no claim beyond that which is service related, being a short time vet should not be a life time guarantee anymore than any other profession would offer.

I do agree with that, but think I have been overruled by the political powers that be.
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Online mariomike

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2016, 11:57:15 »
Date modified: 2015-11-03

NEW DEFINITION OF A VETERAN

"When people think of Veterans, many immediately picture someone who served in the First World War, Second World War or the Korean War."

I found the date of interest. Less than a year ago.

The average age of WW2 veterans is 92.
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/news/general-statistics

I knew a lot of '46ers on the job. Sorry to see there are so few remaining, or in nursing homes.  Went to see one of them and couldn't understand a word he said.  :(



« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 13:42:17 by mariomike »
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2016, 14:14:21 »
Date modified: 2015-11-03

NEW DEFINITION OF A VETERAN

"When people think of Veterans, many immediately picture someone who served in the First World War, Second World War or the Korean War."

I found the date of interest. Less than a year ago.

The average age of WW2 veterans is 92.
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/news/general-statistics

I knew a lot of '46ers on the job. Sorry to see there are so few remaining, or in nursing homes.  Went to see one of them and couldn't understand a word he said.  :(

I think VA may evolve for current veterans, if for no other reason than they want to keep their jobs and budgets (the closed offices being the latest manifestation of that desire).  It is a shame that they spent so many years in the 60s, 70s, and 80s calling us CF retirees, a lot good folks who needed that vet assistance aren't with us anymore. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline CTD

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2016, 23:37:07 »
No, I am saying that there is should be a limitation of liability to that which is service related.  If you leave after a short time, fit and healthy and go on to make your own way in the world, you have no claim beyond that which is service related, being a short time vet should not be a life time guarantee anymore than any other profession would offer.

Who defines you as being healthy, who says an incident or injury from your service does not come forth later on in life causing you a issue?
A three/4 year Soldier signs up, does Basic, trades, then deploys to a War zone or Peace support Mission. Releases after their initial BE, is signed off as fine. (we all know how that goes).
20 years later they are still chasing their demons from their deployment. Their life is a mess, but they did not recognize their issues were service related.

Or how about a Reservist who serves a few years in, gets a deployment. Stays in for 20 or leaves the Reserves shortly after their home from deployment.
They are suffering from PTSD, OSI or physical, yet they do not know or it was treated and paper work lost. For the most part they do not have near the support you have on a Military Base for these issues, nor is your peer support as good in most cases.
Later on in life after not being diagnosed with OSI, PTSD or your physical injury comes back and your life has been a bit of mess because of it. Your saying that because you released healthy and fit deemed by someone who has no two bucks in the matter that the Military has no reason to help you out?

Offline Lightguns

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2016, 11:39:37 »
Who defines you as being healthy, who says an incident or injury from your service does not come forth later on in life causing you a issue?
A three/4 year Soldier signs up, does Basic, trades, then deploys to a War zone or Peace support Mission. Releases after their initial BE, is signed off as fine. (we all know how that goes).
20 years later they are still chasing their demons from their deployment. Their life is a mess, but they did not recognize their issues were service related.

Or how about a Reservist who serves a few years in, gets a deployment. Stays in for 20 or leaves the Reserves shortly after their home from deployment.
They are suffering from PTSD, OSI or physical, yet they do not know or it was treated and paper work lost. For the most part they do not have near the support you have on a Military Base for these issues, nor is your peer support as good in most cases.
Later on in life after not being diagnosed with OSI, PTSD or your physical injury comes back and your life has been a bit of mess because of it. Your saying that because you released healthy and fit deemed by someone who has no two bucks in the matter that the Military has no reason to help you out?

As I said in my first statement you quoted there should be no limitation of liability for service related issues.  Health is determined by a medical professional. 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline CTD

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2016, 14:37:07 »
But many instances the Medical Professional are the ones denying legit issues. Which seem minor now but years down the road cause further complications.
In some cases they are denying benefits to those who are suffering from PTSD and or OSI, using the it "happened to you prior to your Military career".  Yet many of these people were fine before deployment, a little off afterwards and now a complete mess especially after their diagnoses of the professional. Leave it up to the PROs to get the job done.

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2016, 14:56:32 »
Regarding "16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military",

I'm not an expert.

But I do remember this,

Deinstitutionalization of Queen St Mental Health Centre aka 999 and Lakeshore Psychiatric Hospital aka 3131 discharged thousands of patients - including some - how many? - who had likely served in the Canadian military - into South Parkdale in the early '80's. The experts called it "community based care". Whatever...

Only a small number of group homes existed. Perhaps thirty or so, by my recollection.

The city has changed almost beyond recognition since then.

Perhaps someone more current with the homeless situation will comment.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 17:30:39 by mariomike »
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Offline MCG

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2,950 military veterans accessing emergency shelters in Canada
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2016, 18:39:19 »
Is it my imagination or does the byline disagree with the text (see highlight in yellow)?

Quote
Shelter use higher for military veterans, aboriginals than general population: study
CTV News
29 Aug 2016

OTTAWA -- Fewer beds remain empty each night in Canada's emergency homeless shelters as users stay days, sometimes weeks, longer than they did a decade ago, even as their overall numbers decline.

Within that population of almost 137,000 shelter users are nearly 3,000 veterans and up to 45,820 aboriginals, a group over-represented in homeless shelters compared to their percentage of the general population in every community looked at in a newly released federal study.

The findings of the federal review of 10 years of data from more than 200 emergency shelters nationwide paint one of the most detailed pictures yet of the population of shelter users, but also raise a number of questions for experts searching for an explanation behind the numbers.

Why, for instance, are more than half of female veterans under age 30, whereas male veterans are over 40, the average age of shelter users? Is it something more directly tied to their service or maybe prior domestic abuse?

"It raises more questions because it's just a number, but it's a number that doesn't fit. So when a number doesn't fit, it means we need to figure out what else is going on," said Cheryl Forchuk, a professor of nursing at Western University in London, Ont., who has studied homeless veterans.

Federal researchers estimate that there are 2,950 military veterans accessing emergency shelters, or about 2.2 per cent of shelter users, a number higher than the 2,250 federal researchers estimated in a groundbreaking study more than a year ago.

Their numbers in shelters mirror those in the general population, unlike aboriginals whose rates of shelter use are on average 10 times higher than for the general population and 20 times higher for indigenous seniors.

There were also 5,036 immigrants and almost 1,100 refugees who visited a shelter in the last year of the study period that covered nearly three-quarters of the total emergency shelter beds in the country.

Nationally, shelters are running at just over 92 per cent capacity on any given night, a 10-point increase from 2005. The report's authors note that the overall capacity in Canada's emergency shelter system, which is about 15,000 beds, has not changed significantly since 2005.

While the overall number of shelter users has dropped, their length of stay has become longer. Families and seniors, for instance, are likely to stay more than three weeks in shelters compared to the approximately nine days recorded in 2005.

"The fact that people are staying in shelters longer, that's a bad sign because that's going to cost more. The longer someone's homeless, the worse everything gets in their life and the harder it is to get people housed and stabilized," said Stephen Gaetz, director of the Canadian Observatory on Homelessness.

The results released Monday mark the first time that federal researchers have estimated in detail the number of aboriginals, veterans, immigrants and refugees using emergency shelters.

The study looked at information on 1.9 million shelter stays at more than 200 of the 400 emergency shelters across Canada between 2005 and 2014 and provide key indicators for policy makers about large-scale trends in the homeless population.

The numbers don't take into account stays at shelters for women escaping domestic violence, or those set up specifically for refugees.

The country is expected to have a more detailed look at the veterans homeless population, as well as aboriginals and refugees among others, when federal researchers release a more complete study later this fall that takes into account shelter numbers and results from the first federally organized, point-in-time count of homeless populations in 30 Canadian cities.
   
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/shelter-use-higher-for-military-veterans-aboriginals-than-general-population-study-1.3049184

Offline dapaterson

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2016, 19:09:19 »
The number is higher than an earlier study.
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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2016, 14:57:01 »
Instead of starting a new thread, it made more sense to add this here.

I know members on the site have often referred to homeless veterans.
The message I received today, reminded me of many comments:

Quote
Help Support Veterans House and Win a Mercedes Benz!​

On any given night, over 2,400 Canadian Forces Veterans, men and women are homeless, living in shelters and on the streets in our communities and across Canada.  In the National Capital Region alone, there are over 328 identified veterans living on the street. 

As a response to this overwhelming number of individuals, a group of organizations, led by the Multifaith Housing Initiative has come together with the intention of developing Veterans House, an affordable housing project with supports for veterans at risk of homelessness on the site of the former Rockliffe Air Base.

You can do your part to support Veterans House by purchasing a Veterans House Lottery ticket for only $20.  Not only will your purchase be helping to support the development of Veterans House, but you will also be entered in a draw to win a 2016 Mercedes Benz GLA250 SUV 4MATIC!

There are only 7,500 tickets to be sold and the draw will take place on 23 December 2016.


While this effort is for the NCR, it does provide some strong numbers.
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Offline Monsoon

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Re: 16% of Toronto homeless served in Canadian military
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2016, 04:36:31 »
Amazing how quickly "2,950 vets access shelters annually" turns into "2,400 vets use shelters every night" when it comes to fundraising time...  ::)