Author Topic: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn  (Read 77684 times)

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Offline Jungle

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Re: New Chinook Sqn
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2012, 07:31:07 »
And to make the Technoviking happy, the RCAC, RCA and RCIC were arms, but the RCAC and RCIC were also combat arms.

It makes sense, as the RCA needs to move forward for showers and laundry...  ;D

 ;)
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Offline Loachman

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Re: New Chinook Sqn
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2012, 11:21:08 »
Agreed.  As an ex-combat arms soldier I fully agree that the Tac Hel community does not do enough "actual Army" training as you've termed it.  Every time we go to the range, I have to show pilots how their 9mm pieces all fit together!  Most of the ACs we had over seas acquired all of their knowledge of infantry patrols from reading "Bravo 2-0" when they were in BOTC.

Just to clarify, "actual Army" training (which you used first, by the way) means, to me, not just the basic skills that you mention, but airmobile operations, recce/surveillance, close combat attack etcetera - employment of hels and crews in their primary jobs. I would rather see fewer hours flown on individual helicopters, either basic crew proficiency or move-X-platoon-from-GR-A-to-GR-B-in-four-lifts, and more time and effort spent planning multi-helicopter tactical missions in support of an all-arms ground force within a fully-developed scenario. It might take a week to organize and plan and only see an hour or two flown per machine on the last day, but those hours would be quality time.

As far as a pilots status within the US Army as a whole, ask some of their senior guys (CW5 or Sr Officer level) if they have anything close to the say that their Combat Arms equals do.  I can not see our Cbt Arms types being any different.  Within the RCAF, pilots have a lot of say but within the Canadian Army?

The US Army Warrant Officer Pilot concept does not really match anything in Canadian or Commonwealth practice and history. US Army Warrant Officers have some of the privileges of Officers (membership in Officers' Clubs for one), but are not entitled to a salute and do not occupy command positions. They form the bulk of the drivers' positions, which leaves Officers to fill command positions. The Commonwealth equivalent to US Army WO pilots are NCO Pilots. Officers are then no longer high-priced drivers, but Flight, Squadron, Regimental (British) or Platoon, Company, Battalion, (Aviation) Brigade (US), and higher commanders and Staff Officers at all levels in their respective Armies, on par with all other Officers.

So, yes, Canadian Army Aviation Corps Officers could have just as much "say" in the Canadian Army as a whole as their counterparts do elsewhere.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: New Chinook Sqn
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2012, 15:25:12 »
One of the advantages of standing 450 Squadron up is that its Colours are conveniently safeguarded in the 1 CAD HQ lobby, ready for Comd 1 CAD to hand them to a trusted keeper for the transit to Petawawa.

Concur with others that the historical linkages between the heavy (for the day) Army aviation of 1 Transport Helicopter Platoon's Voyageurs within the Royal Canadian Army Service Corps (as well as their service in the post-unification CF's 450 Heavy Transport Helicopter Squadron) with the Chinooks that followed in Air Command's 450 Transport Helicopter Squadron in 1975 onwards are as important, if not even more so, as a unit having battle honours that in very little, if any manner relate to the unit's current (to be) raison d'être.

As a historical note, the 4XX blocking of Squadron numbers originated from the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan (BCATP).  While Canada was allocated 400-449 and Australia with 450-499, by 1968 the BCATP ceased to exist and there was no implied requirement to adhere to any previous conventions.  The situation was quite simply that all the other 4XX`s were taken at the time - recall even 447 Sqn was a BOMARC Squadron in Quebec, not yet the re-numbered 450 (Det) Namao.  The 450 Squadron "conflict" per se between RAAF and CF squadrons was not even known until years after 450 Squadron's activation.

While many of those who have served with 450 Squadron in the past may acknowledge some of the logic presented by others as to why another Squadron number might have been selected, it is reassuring to know that the service of RCAF CH147Fs within 450 Tactical helicopter Squadron will retain the spirit of joint service between aviators, the Army and the CF.

By Air to Battle

Regards
G2G

Online MJP

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Re: New Chinook Sqn
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2012, 16:00:17 »
One of the advantages of standing 450 Squadron up is that its Colours are conveniently safeguarded in the 1 CAD HQ lobby, ready for Comd 1 CAD to hand them to a trusted keeper for the transit to Petawawa.

C

Regards
G2G

Slight tangent

Thank goodness that it can be moved out of there.  There is a great deal of RCAF heritage hiding in that lobby that belongs in proper museum that all can have access too.
Hope is not a valid COA

Offline Journeyman

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Re: New Chinook Sqn
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2012, 16:01:05 »
..... it is reassuring to know that the service of RCAF CH147Fs within 450 Tactical helicopter Squadron will retain the spirit of joint service between aviators, the Army and the CF.
Wow. It's like you read that off of a teleprompter, as part of a campaign/marketting spiel. 

You don't have any particular interest in the squadron, do you?

:pop:
I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

Offline Strike

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Re: New Chinook Sqn
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2012, 16:38:36 »
Wow. It's like you read that off of a teleprompter, as part of a campaign/marketting spiel. 

You don't have any particular interest in the squadron, do you?

:pop:

:ditto:

Inquiring minds want to know!   
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: New Chinook Sqn
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2012, 18:35:30 »
 :whistle:

Offline dapaterson

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450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2012, 09:06:55 »
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/news-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=4205

KINGSTON, Ont. - The reactivation of 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron, which is to be the home of the Canadian Forces’ Chinook Medium-to-Heavy Lift Helicopter, was formalized on May 2, 2012, by an official Canadian Forces order.

As confirmed on May 2, 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron, under the command of 1 Wing and based in Petawawa, Ontario, will be home to 15 F-Model Chinooks - more modern and capable versions of the D-Model Chinooks recently flown in Afghanistan. 450 Squadron was also the designation of the original RCAF unit which operated Chinook helicopters until the early 1990s, at which time these aircraft were phased out.

“Whether protecting the lives of our soldiers deployed overseas or responding to disasters like floods or ice storms or forest fires here at home, the powerful Chinook will help enable the Canadian Forces to carry out the challenging missions we ask of them,” said the Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence. “The Canada First Defence Strategy is concretely increasing the Canadian Forces’ deployability, mobility and flexibility.”

"Delivering on these helicopters is our commitment to putting the safety of our women and men in uniform first." stated Cheryl Gallant, Member of Parliament for Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke. "The presence of the 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron also means a tremendous economic boost to the Upper Ottawa Valley."

With a heavy lift capability to carry up to 40 personnel or 11 363 kilograms of cargo, the F-Model Chinook helicopters and crews of 450 Squadron will increase the operational capability of 1 Wing Kingston, enabling it to respond to the needs of Canadians at home and abroad. The new F-Model Chinook will be able to deploy independently, including to the High Arctic, in part because of its larger fuel tanks.

“I am also very pleased to name Lieutenant-Colonel Duart Townsend as the first Commanding Officer of the reborn 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron,” said Lieutenant-General André Deschamps, Commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force. “I know that LCol Townsend will lead this historic unit with the pride and professionalism that he has clearly shown throughout his extensive experience as a tactical helicopter pilot and staff officer. In fact, he was the very last Chinook pilot to be trained as part of the Canadian Forces’ original 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron before it was disbanded in 1996.”

The first aircraft is expected to be delivered to Petawawa in June 2013, and 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron is expected to employ approximately 400 military personnel by 2016. The numerical designation of 450 was originally given to 450 Squadron of the Royal Australian Air Force during the Second World War, which flew under that number honourably from 1941 until 1945. Despite the fact that the Canadian numbers were from 400 to 449, an administrative error caused the number to be re-designated to a Canadian Heavy Transport Squadron. Despite the strange circumstances, the RAAF and CF later met and were united by friendship, experience and the commonalities of military service.

An appropriate formal ceremony will be held in the future to celebrate the official reactivation of 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron.

This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

Offline milnews.ca

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Since dapaterson beat me to it....
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2012, 09:08:13 »
..... here's a downloadable copy of the statement if the link above doesn't work.

Good luck with the new squadron, folks!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 09:11:32 by milnews.ca »
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2012, 09:13:14 »
My favorite things to fly in are the Chinook and the Herc.

Buses with rotors and wings. Love em. ;D
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2012, 12:01:35 »
Fingers crossed, its listed as a posting preference for me. Loved the Chinook rides in Kandahar, too bad it wasn't Canadian ones then.

Offline Strike

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2012, 12:04:35 »
Congrats to the new CO.  Easily the person most deserving of the role!
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2012, 16:39:30 »
My favorite things to fly in are the Chinook and the Herc.

Buses with rotors and wings. Love em. ;D

Parachuting is safer! Statistics don't lie.

However, I do agree that the shortest distance between two points is: a helicopter.  :nod:

Are there any Chinooks available out west? (apart from the well known weather phenomenon after which the aircraft is named, that is...)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2012, 16:45:36 »
the well known weather phenomenon after which the aircraft is named, that is...)

It is named after Pacific North-west Native Americans, in keeping with US policy of naming their army helos after native american tribes (with one exception), contained in Army Regulation 70-28.

We just conveniently plagiarized  ;D
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 16:50:47 by CDN Aviator »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2012, 19:07:49 »
It is named after Pacific North-west Native Americans, in keeping with US policy of naming their army helos after native american tribes (with one exception), contained in Army Regulation 70-28.

We just conveniently plagiarized  ;D

Ah, of course. A US Marine once told me it was named after alot of hot air, like the DoD produces on a regular basis....  ;D
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #65 on: May 19, 2012, 10:16:03 »
Congrats to the new CO.  Easily the person most deserving of the role!

 :nod:
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Offline beenthere

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2012, 00:19:50 »
I feel that it's appropriate to reincarnate 450 Sqn. Apart from the unfortunate number that was chosen for the squadron back in nineteen seventy something when the thoroughly incompetent people in charge of selecting a squadron number to replace the somewhat bewildering title of 1 Transport Helicopter Platoon picked an already used number. 450 Sqn had been an Australian Sqn during WW2 so they had to have been working late into the night sifting through history in order to pick a squadron number that not only had nothing to do with Canada but was at the same time hijacked from our friends in Australia who are noted for their not very understanding way of accepting thoroughly incompetent people.

All of that fits in perfectly with the half asked way that 1 THP and  later 450 Sqn operated in the no mans land that existed between the army and air force during the years that they served. Typically the unit was not very well accepted by the army as it had some rather peculiar ways that set it apart from a typical ground pounding unit.
 Little things like taking the weather into consideration when planing a support mission. The GPs considered that operating under the cover of any sort of meteorological events such as blizzards or huge thunderstorms would give them the perfect cover that was needed to operate without being detected. I will not even begin to put together a commentary on the downside of this sort of use of the forces of nature to turn the tide in favor of our troops.
The air force of that era was pretty much a fighting force that preferred to operate from well established bases with lots of infrastructure and no shortness of comfort features. They pretty much believed that if anyone wanted to live under canvas and eat questionable food such as canned chili con carnie and sleep in fields with sheep the they were quite welcome to do so but please leave us out of the game.
I am only vaguely aware of the navy's view of all of this as they for the greater part were either being tossed about on the great brine or trying to find  safety in that great port on the Rideau.
I spent many years with 1 THP and 450 Sqn and apart from a few bouts of absolute terror I thoroughly enjoyed my years in no mans land.
One of the greatest benefits of being there was that no one else knew or much cared what we were doing so we were not much bothered by anyone.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 13:35:54 by beenthere »
But not lately. If I could do it all over again I would  change one thing.

Offline VanIsleGirl

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #67 on: May 19, 2014, 20:56:49 »
why is there no reference that I have been abl to find of 450SQN W stationed in Edmonton in the late 60ès and early 70èsÉ Or even of 1 AFMS sqn.  Both of these sqnès are important to the history of 450 HT sqn station in CFB Edmonton!
As an ex-member of this Sqn I am a little frustrated/miffed of no reference. As well is there no 450 SQN Association, I see there is for other SQN.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2014, 22:21:18 »
Combining the official 'short' history of 450 Sqn on DND's Directorate of History and Heritage with some information available at several websites, including this site by JF Chalifoux, trace 450 Squadron (Det) Namao's period of service from 20 May 1970 until 1 Jan 1979, when 450 (Det) became 447 THS.  I understand that a 450 Sqn Association has informally existed, but may be being formalized in the near future, given the unit's reactivation in 2012.  There is a 450 (T) Hel Sqn Facebook Page started before the squadron was reactivated, that serves as a focal point for past and present members of the unit to stay in touch.


Regards
G2G

Offline Colin P

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Re: 450 Tactical Helicopter Squadron Is Reborn
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2014, 16:02:47 »
Wedges are not that bad and many a Aviator still manged to get laid wearing one