Author Topic: Leave - Recall and Other Issues [MERGED]  (Read 37957 times)

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Offline NEM3sis

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2014, 11:11:47 »
actually George, in this case the CoC was aware I would be in Toronto.

My point highlighting the course being shorten by one week is only to show the fact that 4 month ago, when we bought the tickets and booked the hotel and I was course-loaded, to whom should I have done the leave pass? to my CoC at my unit or to the school since I belonged to the school, not my unit until the end of course.

I think I may be good for the hotel cost this time thanks to Ostrozac input and also because I got the support of some higher up within the Unit, but this will go in the Lesson Learned book for next time.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2014, 11:19:24 »
My point highlighting the course being shorten by one week is only to show the fact that 4 month ago, when we bought the tickets and booked the hotel and I was course-loaded, to whom should I have done the leave pass? to my CoC at my unit or to the school since I belonged to the school, not my unit until the end of course.

Sounds like an easy question to ask your CofC.   ;)  Were you going to be on TD or an AP? 

If they didn't know, they'd put the question up the chain, and over to the TE if required.

I've been "on course" before (same geo location as my unit), but not officially on TD or an AP.  Same question was asked by my unit to the TE; they came to an agreement that the TE CofC would approve the leave.  Voila, submitted my leave pass and had it back signed from the TE CofC that day.

In your case then, when your course ended early (assuming you were on TD or AP for the course and the TE CofC approved leave previously), you would officially be released back to your unit, where you would say "okay, I'm back now...I have this leave pass signed for weekend X.  Do I need to submit a new one?".

If your *new* request for leave was denied, because of circumstances outside your control I would then think that you would be reimbursed for any cancellation fees that might arise from your previously-approved-now-denied leave pass.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 11:23:24 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline NEM3sis

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2014, 12:35:29 »
this is informative and will go in the lesson learned for the future, Thanks Eye in the Sky.
I was not on TD, the only thing separating the school from my Unit is a driving range.




Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2014, 12:47:14 »
Cheers.  Hope you get your leave approved for your wedding.  If there is someone trying to side-rail it, being that it is your wedding you are requesting leave for, I'm hopeful your CO signs off.

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Offline COOK9856

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RECALLED LEAVE REIMBURSMENT
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2015, 08:55:28 »
It is 2 weeks before i drive down to Disney World with my family. CoC is trying to recall an approved leave pass. My parents are scheduled to met me and my family down there and they have already purchased tickets. I'm trying to find anything that states that they are entitled to a reimbursement also. all i have right now is  CBI 209.54, QRO 16.01. can't find anything about extended family having to cancel vacation due to my leave being recalled. any suggestions?

Offline George Wallace

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Re: RECALLED LEAVE REIMBURSMENT
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2015, 08:57:45 »
This has been discussed before.  WAIT OUT and I will merge the topics.


Merged

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 09:02:34 by George Wallace »
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Offline COOK9856

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2015, 09:23:09 »
I don't see how this thread helps me. I'm looking for reimbursement for extended family members who have booked vacation for the purposes of seeing me and my family.

for example.....if I were getting married. i had a leave pass for the ceremony. several family member are flying in to whiteness the ceremony. leave gets recalled. can i get their plane tickets reimbursed?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2015, 09:35:59 »
The Leave Manual (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page) doesn't provide much more, but does provide definitions of what constitute "imperative military requirements".
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Offline Strike

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2015, 09:54:26 »
Looking at this: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-209-transportation-expenses.page#sec-209-54  I notice this statement:

Quote
209.54 - Reimbursement of Expenses when Recalled from or on Cancellation of Leave
 
209.54(1) (Application) SSubject to paragraph (2), an officer or non-commissioned member who is recalled to duty from leave in accordance with QR&O 16.01 (Withholding of and Recall From Leave) or whose approved leave has been cancelled for service reasons may be reimbursed for:
 a.transportation and travelling expenses in accordance with CBI 209.83 - Transportation and Travelling Expenses – Move of Officers and Non-commissioned Members on Posting or of Dependants for the member and, where applicable, their dependants to the place of duty from the place from which the member was recalled and for the return journey if the member resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which the member was recalled; and
 b.additional expenses resulting either from the cost of breaking contractual arrangements or cancellation fees that were made specifically for the purpose of an approved leave period.
209.54(2) (Submission of claims for reimbursement) Claims for reimbursement under paragraph (1) shall be submitted in accordance with orders and instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff.

That MAY be something you could look at if you made the booking for hotels, park tickets, whatever and they had to be cancelled as a whole group.  But I don't think extended family flight costs would be covered.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2015, 09:55:29 »
Leave Policies will apply to you and your immediate family (ie. spouse and dependents) in the majority of cases.  Your "extended" family will have to deal with any changes to their plans on their own.  The government has no responsibility for them in the cases you have put forward.

If you check the links on the previous post, you will find:

Quote
209.54 - Reimbursement of Expenses when Recalled from or on Cancellation of Leave

209.54(1) (Application) SSubject to paragraph (2), an officer or non-commissioned member who is recalled to duty from leave in accordance with QR&O 16.01 (Withholding of and Recall From Leave) or whose approved leave has been cancelled for service reasons may be reimbursed for:

a.  transportation and travelling expenses in accordance with CBI 209.83 - Transportation and Travelling Expenses    – Move of Officers and Non-commissioned Members on Posting or of Dependants for the member and, where applicable, their dependants to the place of duty from the place from which the member was recalled and for the return journey if the member resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which the member was recalled; and
b. additional expenses resulting either from the cost of breaking contractual arrangements or cancellation fees that were made specifically for the purpose of an approved leave period.

209.54(2) (Submission of claims for reimbursement) Claims for reimbursement under paragraph (1) shall be submitted in accordance with orders and instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff.
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Offline MCG

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2015, 10:06:45 »
The extended family could always bring thier concerns to Director Claims and Civil Litigation.

Offline exgunnertdo

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Re: leave recall, and other leave issues
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2015, 11:51:19 »
I'll put this in this thread, for general purposes - TRIP CANCELLATION INSURANCE!!!!

I am bit of a cruise addict, and spend a bit of time on a message board dedicated to cruising. Almost daily, there are threads about "I have to cancel my cruise for xyz reason. Will Royal Caribbean/Carnival/Disney give me my money back?"

For us military folks, if we have a signed leave pass, signed and stamped before the travel was booked, you can get your money back from the government (as mentioned, for military member and immediate family). We've done it, when my husband was recalled from leave (only had to cover a hotel in that case). Another time, we almost had to get the military to reimburse us for a cruise when my husband was deployed on very short notice, but Royal Caribbean was very generous and allowed us to cancel for a full refund.

Most Trip Cancellation Insurance policies will cover if a member of your party has to cancel for a valid reason (work is usually a valid reason). So while the military will reimburse if the recall you/cancel your leave, if your extended family has trip cancellation insurance, that could apply.

Also, a good idea for the military member and family. If someone gets too sick to travel, you'll all be out the money. If a storm means cancelled flights (it is still hurricane season) and they miss 2 days of your prepaid hotel/park passes, etc. The military will not help with those scenarios. Cancelled leave is not the only reason to need to get your money back.

Just warning for people reading the thread. I recognize the poster with the question may be out of luck on this one. If the extended family doesn't already have insurance, it's too late. The military is not responsible for everyone's travel plans. They have to take their own precautions.

But nevertheless - have the extended family members check their credit card policy. Some credit cards have cancellation insurance built in as a benefit. Also, if they booked through a travel agent, some travel agents slip it in without you realizing it. They get a commission on insurance so it's to their benefit to sell it to you.
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Offline ratatomik

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Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2015, 19:40:10 »
Hi,
   i've been looking around the DAOD and QR&O but couldnt find anything on that.
  Is there a maximum time you have to report in when let's say you r on days off and you get a phone call but arent there to pick up? Im looking for a reference of something.

 Thanks for your help!

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2015, 19:42:28 »
Unit Orders?  And, by 'days off' do you mean shiftwork, normal weekends, NWDs?  On leave?
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Offline ratatomik

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2015, 19:44:14 »
Shiftwork, weekends and leave.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2015, 19:53:16 »
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-16.page

Section 1 - General

16.01 - WITHHOLDING OF AND RECALL FROM LEAVE

(1) Leave may be withheld from an officer or non-commissioned member only when there is a military requirement to do so.

(2) An officer or non-commissioned member on leave may be recalled to duty only:
a.because of imperative military requirements; and
b.when the member's commanding officer personally directs the member's return to duty.

(3) An officer or non-commissioned member recalled to duty under paragraph (2) ceases to be on leave and is on duty during the period of the journey from the place from which he is recalled to his place of duty and during the period of the return journey if he resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which he was recalled.

As for how much time, I can't say that I've ever seen that in a reg or order before.  What if I am on leave in the UK and get recalled?  How much time to I have?

First question, under who's direction (not the same as authority) was your leave 'cancelled';  the QR & O is clear IMO.
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Offline ratatomik

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2015, 20:02:56 »
Yeah i stumbled about that ref too. However, its pretty generic and doesnt give precise timeline. I guess its a case by case kind of thing. Thanks tho.

Offline captloadie

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2015, 21:03:49 »
Although it is situation dependant, we are not on a leash (unless you are given a pager/duty phone/Blackberry).

If your normal shift has ended, you haven't been given any other instructions, and then they can't get ahold of you, there isn't much the CoC can do but wait for you to return the message (well, they could send out the MPs, but that usually means something is really wrong). And you shouldn't be in crap for it.

Now, if you answered the call and said you'd be right in, and didn't show for three hours, that's a different story.

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2015, 21:30:11 »
Although it is situation dependant, we are not on a leash (unless you are given a pager/duty phone/Blackberry).

There was an interesting discussion about that,
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=117338.0
"a hypothetical discussion took place with regards to an expectation that we are to be available for contact off-duty or on leave."


Shiftwork, weekends and leave.

This may help,

leave recall, and other leave issues 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=116686.0;nowap
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 22:09:07 by mariomike »
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Offline JesseWZ

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2015, 22:17:46 »
If your normal shift has ended, you haven't been given any other instructions, and then they can't get ahold of you, there isn't much the CoC can do but wait for you to return the message (well, they could send out the MPs, but that usually means something is really wrong). And you shouldn't be in crap for it.


We don't normally go find someone unless there is:

a) reason to believe they are in trouble or will harm themselves; or

b) a CO's warrant for arrest for the person due to them being AWOL.

We aren't typically a taxi service (though there is the odd time we can be - family member deceased just to name the first item on my mind).
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2015, 10:47:27 »
Yeah i stumbled about that ref too. However, its pretty generic and doesnt give precise timeline. I guess its a case by case kind of thing. Thanks tho.

In the fleet we have a maximum time of 4 hrs from the time a recall is initiated to the time we need to be at the ship. That doesn't mean take your time; you come straight to the ship. Realistically, there is no reason we shouldn't be able to get a hold of you within 4 hours, unless your watching a screen of the extended edition of Lord of the Rings: Return of the King.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2015, 10:59:31 »
4 hours based on...

The CAF Leave Manual states I am not required to put in a leave pass for normal weekends I am not on duty, and I am allowed to travel, as long as I am back at my expected time Monday morning, right? So let's say on a weekend, I fly to Toronto.  I am not on leave, not on duty, etc.  IAW published CAF policy, I am authorized to travel on the weekend as long as I am back at my expected time.

Now what?  Where is the reg stating the 4 hours deal?  Word of mouth? 

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Offline Haggis

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2015, 11:21:05 »
I ride a motorcycle - a lot.  On weekends I would routinely stray far more than 4 hours from NDHQ (sometimes the farther the better  ;D ).  Having researched this, there is no hard and fast rule articulating a specific time window in which you were expected to report back upon recall.  Unless you were notified in advance that you were subject to potential recall, within a set time period, you could only be expected back "within a reasonable time".  So, if I rode to Toronto, a "reasonable time" would be four to six hours.

No unit should expect you, on a weekend, to remain within four hours without being subject to advance notification of potential recall.  What if you'd had a few beers at a BBQ?  8 hours from bottle to throttle then applies.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2015, 11:25:26 »
4 hours based on...

The CAF Leave Manual states I am not required to put in a leave pass for normal weekends I am not on duty, and I am allowed to travel, as long as I am back at my expected time Monday morning, right? So let's say on a weekend, I fly to Toronto.  I am not on leave, not on duty, etc.  IAW published CAF policy, I am authorized to travel on the weekend as long as I am back at my expected time.

Now what?  Where is the reg stating the 4 hours deal?  Word of mouth?

If you have traveled outside of your "Unit Boundaries", then you would need a Leave Pass.  I would say that your being in a "Western Province" and flying to "Toronto" (well outside of your "Units Boundaries") on a weekend, without a Leave Pass, would not be within published CAF policies. 
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Offline AmmoTech90

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Re: Maximum time to report in?
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2015, 11:28:37 »
If you have traveled outside of your "Unit Boundaries", then you would need a Leave Pass.  I would say that your being in a "Western Province" and flying to "Toronto" (well outside of your "Units Boundaries") on a weekend, without a Leave Pass, would not be within published CAF policies.

Absolutely wrong.

From the Leave Manual

Quote
2.1.04 Weekends and Holidays
 
Weekends and Holidays are included on Form CF 100 when they form part of a leave period in conjunction with other types of leave that are reckoned in working days. A CF 100 is not required for a member proceeding exclusively on weekends and/or designated or other holidays, except when:
 •when travelling to a foreign country, or to a country other than the one where the member is employed;
 •when travel benefits are requested (eg. LTA); or
 •when required for ration accounting purposes for members authorized to draw rations on a continuous basis. 
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